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[Music]

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machine

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last off on a vip episode of hero

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paranormal my name is ryan the original

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outlaw of the airwaves bringing you a

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episode

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from shapeshifter territory that's right

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and it's a heck of an episode go to

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heroparonormal.com to check out the rest

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now here we go okay so most

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listeners of this podcast are familiar

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with

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well the supposed haunting

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and oddness of paranormal phenomena

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in the uintah basin it is an area

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of study and alleged phenomena for many

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years

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now this has gone on from well as long

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as

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i've been alive for sure if you haven't

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read

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colm kellehers and

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george knapp's book the hunt for the

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skin walker

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many of these purported events

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of alleged phenomena are described

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in detail so

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here we go chris marks is a u.s

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army veteran and certified military

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police

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investigator who served two tours of

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duty in iraq

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and one in afghanistan returning from

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iraq in 2009

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he was hired by bigelow aerospace

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advanced space studies

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or bass as an investigator and security

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guard

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here's where things start to get hairy

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and i mean that

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himself and chris bartel both insist

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that medical testing was done on them

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now

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this was something out of the ordinary

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from my

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understanding they also insist that

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non-lethal weapons testing may have been

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also used on them

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but we'll get into that as well wild

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claims from a wild

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place a lot of wild things happening all

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over now i will like

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to justify that others have maintained

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this is not the case at all including

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eric davis

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and um who perfectly explained i believe

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his scenario in uh let me read it here i

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there we go eric davis yes i worked for

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five years

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when i was director of aerospace and

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astrophysics research at nids

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i investigated and personally

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experienced a lot of

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the phenomenon including the shooting of

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a possible crypto-terrestrial

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one very violent calf mutilation orbs

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telepathic contact ufos

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powerful muskie odors etc

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i was never mentally or physically

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injured or medically tested

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after five years or much later after

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leaving nudes

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all of my work was documented in

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kelleher and knapp's book

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followed by knapp and corbell's

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documentary film

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you and mr marks are misleading with

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your false narrative

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of being military vets who were

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medically tested without your consent

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so um and he goes in to say that he's

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read all of the reports from asap and

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none of that was involved so

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there's varying degrees of opinion here

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but in all fairness i like to be fair

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and listen to

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all aspects now i'm going to discuss

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many things with erica luke's

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and this podcast is going to

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hopefully you know we don't have to

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agree we can agree to disagree

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but have a conversation about it and uh

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see

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forthcoming with each other i believe

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that research has a

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better chance of going further than it

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does uh with

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without that in all clarification i

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should mention that erica luke's is now

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married

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to chris marks so uh just there's not

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any miscommunication about that

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and um they do go up to the basin

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uh on occasion quite often just you know

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camping doing whatever so we're going to

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discuss a lot of different things

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hopefully not get stuck on any one thing

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in particular

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it is also very very important to

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clarify and maintain that

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all of the things that chris marx and

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erica are

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allegedly reporting could have possibly

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happened

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are prior to many properties changing

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hands

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to different things happening other

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things have transpired it's been a long

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time

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and a lot has taken place so things are

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not the same as they used to be

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some things are but most things are not

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the same as they used to be so keep that

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in mind as well

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yeah it's anybody's best guess how this

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is going to go

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it's the episode the guest episode so

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anybody's best

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guess episode it should be um it should

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be a good time though

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as long as everything is cordial which

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it it will be

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you know the uinta basin is a pandora's

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box in general

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so it's kind of nice to hear yes i

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i consider chris marks and erica luke's

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and chris bartel a very real angle

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to the metaphysical prism known as

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shapeshifter territory

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it is important to hear what they have

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to say

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missing something important could be

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aliens military testing mk ultra

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paranormal activity cryptozoology

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and native american legends all

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explode together and more

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welcome to hero paranormal yeah so

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what's up in your life

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what are you doing these days

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uh kiddos kiddos kiddos and more kiddos

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but yeah it's

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it's good life is good

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are you and you're you're you spend most

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of your time in las vegas

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and then how often do you get up near

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the ranch

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i come up every month um

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monthly and try to just you know

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take some time to spend there and mix it

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in with work

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and uh it's it's kind of uh

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it's kind of what i do yeah and so what

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tell us about

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you know when what was your time frame

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when did you first

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learn about the ranch and i know you

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were living in the area when all of that

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happened but just give us the

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rundown on how all of it unfolded for

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you

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okay and to clarify the ranch or the

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area the things we're talking about when

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i think the ranch like i just think of

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a little property that i purchased known

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as spacewolf research where

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i just kind of go it's a spiritual

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retreat for me basically to just kind of

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go and unwind

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when i do real estate work up in utah

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so about once about about a week out of

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the month i'll head up to utah and i'll

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do real estate work

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and i either have to stay in the town

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where i do the work

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or i can stay in a town over which is

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really close by and a lot more fun and i

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kind of enjoy

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being there which is why i purchased the

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property but

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the area in general the uintah basin in

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general i originally

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went up uh to the uinta basin i

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um i was i was a fly fishing guide gosh

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this story's so long it just keeps going

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but i was a fly fishing guide to

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condense into like a super

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you know super condensed version i was a

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fly fishing guide in the area had some

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strange experiences uh got injured

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because of some lights in the sky i

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dropped a big rock on my toe

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and i was dumb and i was out of work so

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i drove around looking for fishing spots

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and one day came across this

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epicenter quote unquote in the uintah

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basin you know just the univision in

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general is amazing i spent a lot of time

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looking for

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fishing spots and and just you know

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doing that

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if you spend any quantity of time alone

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in the uintah basin

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you start to get a greater respect for

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it and that's what first intrigued me

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then i had another experience

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there in the what is now known as you

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know the hot spots

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and that has kind of led me down a path

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where i left corporate america went up

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full-time

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lived there and was researching

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full-time for quite a while about 10

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years

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and then uh life goes on and and

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you know i it's interesting i mean both

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of us have had

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such a trippy journey with regard to

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that and

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we're so passionate about it and for you

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you spent so much time up there and it

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is

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there's something about that whole area

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it really is magnificent

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the last time i went up there i was a

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little bit

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shocked at how much uh how much drilling

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they're doing

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now how much things have very quickly

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changed

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uh and i from what i understand there is

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a

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going to be doing some things right next

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to the ranch and in the surrounding

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areas with regard to

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uh transporting some uh it's

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stuff do you know what do you know about

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about the uintah railway basin

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it's a big basement railway you went to

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base railway

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yeah yeah it is it is a big project

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it is a big project it has some heavy

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hitters involved and they have taken the

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gamble

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coved no covid nobody cares it's uh

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this is energy raw energy and they're

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going to be moving it

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in a new way that will hopefully

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hopefully free

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up some space on the utah roadways

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and you know we'll see less of those big

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rigs

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going back and forth um the the concern

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i had was that this would take away from

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jobs

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from you know many of the truck drivers

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but i guess they have

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the infrastructure and uh the ability

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they're going to be hiring

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a lot more than they're firing so that's

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the proposal and it's going to be going

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right down this general corridor of

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south of i-40 uh right through the

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dinosaur diamond

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well it's very extensive and i know that

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uh

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tom winterton who's involved with the

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new ranch uh

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project his father is a senator and

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was responsible for some of the tax

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breaks that the project received

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so it is interesting to see how all of

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the you know that

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it's such a small small place and you

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know everything seems to connect one way

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or another

286
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:38,640
so it's fascinating to me but uh

287
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:39,839
hopefully

288
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,279
there's always concern of what

289
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,279
what that will do to the environment and

290
00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:46,800
as a result what that will do to the

291
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,839
people

292
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:49,519
living in the area i think that there's

293
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:50,959
already some

294
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,720
you know that there was a rolling stone

295
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:54,320
article a few

296
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:55,839
a couple years ago about all the

297
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:57,680
stillbirths and vernal which they never

298
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:58,720
seem to

299
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,079
to quite get a handle on but

300
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:03,760
what do you think about about things

301
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:06,240
like that

302
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:10,720
you know i i think the entire enigma of

303
00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:13,680
fossil fuel is just so fascinating in

304
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:14,959
and of itself

305
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:18,800
and it is you know the the backbone

306
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,680
to the entire industrial revolution and

307
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,360
the whole reason why

308
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,360
why you and i are probably talking over

309
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,639
the internet but

310
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:29,120
the interesting thing is that nobody

311
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,560
really knows what it is

312
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:33,200
um yes it's most likely fossil fuel but

313
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:33,600
there's

314
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:37,360
passed but not to go down that that

315
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,959
definite alley because that kind of

316
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:40,560
leads into gilsonite which i want to go

317
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:41,760
into later

318
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:44,800
but the the interesting thing

319
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:48,480
about the energy sector and the military

320
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:49,279
sector

321
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:54,160
all share many of the same channels

322
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,680
and many of these channels are uh

323
00:13:02,870 --> 00:12:59,760
at a quandary at some of the stuff

324
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:02,880
taking place in the basin

325
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:06,160
that is interesting and and that really

326
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,440
is interesting and thank you for

327
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,880
bringing that up because it does

328
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:11,120
all that again that's something all of

329
00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:11,920
those

330
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:14,560
things intersect and it makes for a much

331
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,360
more

332
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,240
intriguing and involved story uh behind

333
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:20,800
the scenes than most people realize

334
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:24,079
and i think for you and i having having

335
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,880
kind of dug

336
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:27,519
a little bit further or deeper than most

337
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,639
people

338
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,959
have the you know opportunity to do that

339
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:32,800
it we've kind of discovered some of

340
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:33,440
these

341
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,600
much more to the story than just

342
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:40,480
lights in the sky or you know strange

343
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:41,760
creatures or

344
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,949
yes it is and the military is involved

345
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,800
in a lot of the complexities

346
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:52,800
with good reason they are things that

347
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:54,320
can be militarized

348
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:58,000
and there is the obvious camellio

349
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,880
robert guffy agenda that has been

350
00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:02,079
unveiled which is

351
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,639
hard to deny anymore but that um amazing

352
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:07,120
technology i'm glad that we have it and

353
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:10,639
the other people don't but um

354
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:14,000
it's it's scary too at the same time

355
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:17,199
it is it's just very interesting so i

356
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:20,079
when you first had your experiences and

357
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:21,360
and you decided that you were just going

358
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:23,360
to bite the bullet and then

359
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,199
you know move move there and see what

360
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,360
you could do and research was this

361
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:29,519
before or after the book had been

362
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:32,959
written hunt for the skinwalker

363
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:35,519
this was well it depends on okay when i

364
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:37,120
left corporate america it was

365
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:40,079
after the book had been written and

366
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:41,600
what's interesting

367
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:45,199
is um i had not read the book

368
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:49,040
um but i was interested

369
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:52,320
in jamming up there and

370
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:53,920
actually no i take that back i had read

371
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:56,000
the book i had read the book

372
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,519
but i hadn't i hadn't correlated that

373
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,680
some events that had taken place in my

374
00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:02,560
life

375
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,040
were in fact 100 percent

376
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:09,120
definitively in the same location i i

377
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,680
had not

378
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:11,279
wrapped my head around that yet and it

379
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,720
took me a while to

380
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,240
when it when i wrap my head around that

381
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:16,720
i was with ryan skinner and it just it

382
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,279
just

383
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:19,360
i was like oh my gosh am i looking at

384
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,639
what i think i'm looking at

385
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,880
and yeah it was the same thing but just

386
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:24,399
a different angle but yeah there's a lot

387
00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:26,160
of strange angles to this and

388
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:29,759
it all kind of comes back um to

389
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:36,230
and so will you describe that incident

390
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:37,040
that you had with

391
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:41,519
with brian skinner

392
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:45,680
we were at the time we were

393
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:49,120
we were at a location that was

394
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:51,360
famed in my mind i'd read the book like

395
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:52,399
you mentioned

396
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:54,079
and we were looking for something i

397
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:56,480
didn't know exactly existed

398
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:00,720
and when i came across something

399
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,600
i realized that i was looking down upon

400
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,279
something that i was looking up upon

401
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:09,600
before so it was like oh my gosh

402
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,279
like i saw the same landmarks the same

403
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:16,079
uh general and it's hard in that area

404
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:17,519
because a lot of the stuff looks the

405
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:18,160
same

406
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,949
and i know that there was i mean this

407
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,639
that kind of episode

408
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,040
was very disconcerting for you from what

409
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:37,040
i'm remembering

410
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:40,880
yeah yeah literally i was like

411
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:45,279
would have been probably almost exactly

412
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,720
uh above an incident that took place

413
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,360
but i was looking down on a roadway

414
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:52,800
where i had driven in

415
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:55,519
and back then it was not what it is

416
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,720
today and

417
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:59,279
things have changed as many things have

418
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,639
over and over again

419
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,120
but it just that realization that oh my

420
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,640
gosh you're in the same spot this is the

421
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,919
same place

422
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,160
and what you thought didn't happen

423
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,309
wow and and so did you after that

424
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:16,160
incident did you feel any

425
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:24,309
yeah i had this injury to a toe

426
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:27,520
and this toe turned out to be quite the

427
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:30,480
troublesome appendage throughout my life

428
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,120
just maybe

429
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:33,520
i don't know why but um you know maybe

430
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,799
it's sympathetic

431
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,559
involvement or emotional energy i don't

432
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:38,000
know maybe it's just a portion of your

433
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:38,960
body that's just

434
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:41,919
you know overtaken by just whatever i've

435
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:44,160
heard so many different

436
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:47,360
theories and concoctions and excuses but

437
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:50,799
the truth is i don't know all i know is

438
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:54,320
uh when i was a young kid i had this toe

439
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:58,559
pulled in costa rica of all places

440
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,840
in a room that later my

441
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:04,080
a family member not to go into too much

442
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:05,360
detail had a

443
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:08,720
poltergeist like uh experience

444
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:11,919
ongoing for quite some time until they

445
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:15,280
subdued to a coma and they didn't come

446
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:17,520
out of that coma until a quote-unquote

447
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,640
witch

448
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,360
who was involved perished and then came

449
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:22,320
out of the coma

450
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:25,360
but the interesting thing is

451
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,480
the toe didn't really

452
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:30,640
change it kind of like followed through

453
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,520
into these

454
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,600
first it started as kind of a paranormal

455
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:35,360
poltergeist kind of ooh scary i'm a

456
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,360
little kid this is horrifying thing

457
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,799
but i'm pretty sure that happened in

458
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:40,400
real and there's marks on my toe

459
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:43,360
and you know very traumatic and then

460
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:44,480
later on

461
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,360
it's kind of uh oh you you dummy you saw

462
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:49,039
a light in the sky and dropped a rock on

463
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,840
your toe

464
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,400
well that turned into a whole ordeal

465
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:54,559
that led into the event you're talking

466
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:55,600
about

467
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,919
and and it's just funny how these dots

468
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,960
connect

469
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:01,600
and yet you see the same players um or

470
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:02,320
the same

471
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:07,520
even body parts you know when it comes

472
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,559
to

473
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:11,039
things that are purportedly alien

474
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:11,760
implants

475
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,630
that is interesting and so i mean you

476
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:22,720
you obviously i mean you have a you had

477
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:24,559
a place there

478
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:27,440
and how far away was your place from

479
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:28,320
from

480
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:35,190
well i i don't want to say uh exactly

481
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,080
the ranch

482
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:38,640
just because if a lot of these incidents

483
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,840
didn't take place

484
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:42,240
and that's the thing with the area in

485
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:45,760
general this is not by any means

486
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,039
held into one property or boundary a lot

487
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:50,880
of times people will see a location like

488
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:52,080
oh it happened right there

489
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,520
and we have to be right there and it's

490
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:55,280
like no you can throw a baseball there

491
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:56,080
you're there

492
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,520
you're you're beyond there and if

493
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:02,320
if if you're there you're there and you

494
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:05,039
usually know it you don't have to anyway

495
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,000
so not to get into

496
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:08,080
the whole like property boundaries or

497
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,720
area but yeah in general fort duchesne

498
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,840
might and randlette uray

499
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,840
uh the list goes on and on from there

500
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:17,679
that's that i would say roosevelt

501
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,559
ballard is we're looking at an epicenter

502
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:22,159
even vernal

503
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:25,520
duchene is where my house was and so

504
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:28,559
um that's about equidistant from

505
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,640
vernal uh to uh well now let's see

506
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:34,559
let's see do shane it depends on what

507
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,760
roads you take you can get there in a

508
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:36,640
half hour

509
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,559
away and i was going all the time to

510
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:44,720
some of these random spots where you'd

511
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:45,039
see

512
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,720
random lights and when you look back

513
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,159
you're thinking that's probably

514
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,200
not randomly that smart

515
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,760
right it is interesting just to see

516
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:54,720
either

517
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,360
uh read the reports or hear the reports

518
00:21:02,870 --> 00:20:59,520
from different people over the years

519
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:02,880
in in that area and i always kind of

520
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:04,880
thought it it you know it was a little

521
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:07,200
funny that supposedly the big the

522
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:08,640
epicenter where

523
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,600
all the you know the whatever portals

524
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,280
and evil entities or

525
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,520
you know that kind of scenario is taking

526
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:17,440
place is just in one little isolated

527
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,400
area

528
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:20,400
you know which obviously we have reports

529
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:21,520
from all over the whole

530
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:24,320
the whole area so it's it is funny the

531
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:24,720
way

532
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:29,039
things kind of um evolved with the story

533
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,679
over the years oh yeah

534
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:36,240
and so when you when you started to

535
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:37,600
investigate

536
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,919
this and you were really you know i mean

537
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,039
kind of getting

538
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,960
used to it knowing the people in the

539
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:44,559
area making friends with people in the

540
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,520
area

541
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:47,520
what were some of the first things that

542
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:48,559
you discovered

543
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:53,120
about people's thoughts or experiences

544
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,400
with regard to ufos and

545
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:59,440
bigfoot and shape shifters and and all

546
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:00,080
of that

547
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:07,190
great question because yeah it's so

548
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:08,880
such a good question because it takes a

549
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,480
long time to gain

550
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,799
that level of confidence with somebody

551
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,320
where they'll tell you about something

552
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:15,760
like this

553
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,120
and yeah you'll get that look and it's

554
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:21,360
that look like can you handle it and

555
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,600
you know everybody gives you that look

556
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:25,360
and then they look away and smile like

557
00:22:28,149 --> 00:22:26,400
yeah you know what

558
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:28,159
what kind of question are you asking me

559
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:29,600
well that's the look and

560
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:32,480
if they follow up with something like

561
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:33,840
that what kind of question are you

562
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,720
asking me you

563
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,799
you have to kind of you know lead down

564
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,720
well something maybe that didn't look

565
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:40,240
right to you or

566
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,240
something that had a spiritual effect

567
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,240
and kind of changed you a little bit

568
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,320
could be and that that's where

569
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:50,960
the best stories come in is when it

570
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:51,840
affects

571
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:55,600
the observer

572
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:58,159
absolutely it's true i mean so who are

573
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,120
some of the

574
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:01,520
um i mean how did you who are some of

575
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:02,640
the first people that you

576
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,799
you got to know in the area

577
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,559
well i'll tell you a classic tale that

578
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:10,799
comes to mind and that was

579
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:14,080
at rockies actually waiting around

580
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,200
to talk to junior hicks and

581
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,280
it was i was sitting around and i just

582
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,280
ordered a raspberry shake and got him

583
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:23,600
one because that's what he liked and

584
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:26,880
i'm sitting there and the person

585
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:29,919
in the next booth over could

586
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,080
hear me talking on the phone asking

587
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:34,960
someone else what questions to ask him

588
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,320
and at the time

589
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:40,000
i didn't think anything of it when i put

590
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:41,440
the phone down they looked at me and

591
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,000
they said

592
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:43,600
hey we need to talk to you about some

593
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:46,559
dogs that by our up by our trailer

594
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,240
and uh they don't look like they're

595
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,960
real they look more like hyenas they're

596
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:54,320
robotic

597
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:56,960
and they'll kill anything in their path

598
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:57,919
and i

599
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,840
then they mentioned that some of them

600
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,200
had tubes

601
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:03,760
hanging out of their sides and and and

602
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,600
things that looked laboratory in nature

603
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:07,200
and i'm sitting there going hey this is

604
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,240
not the weirdness

605
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,720
that i want to go down i i need to talk

606
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:11,760
to junior

607
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,360
but that's the kind of stuff that you'll

608
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,760
just kind of come across so

609
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:17,520
and it was a random person so it just

610
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:18,960
happens

611
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:21,200
and i remember years ago you telling me

612
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:23,120
that story

613
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:26,080
that and that is i mean what now i mean

614
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,440
is your opinion changed on

615
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,440
what you think that was and can you tell

616
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:31,039
us you know what

617
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,720
what your thoughts were when you heard

618
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:35,039
that and what your investigations

619
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,190
well it led to a general area that

620
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:46,320
is um

621
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:49,039
i in my opinion highly overlooked and

622
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:49,440
that

623
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,279
in general

624
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:55,279
over and over again we've seen these

625
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:56,880
examples

626
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:00,400
historically of extreme

627
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:03,120
experiences coming forth even in the

628
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:04,159
media

629
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:08,159
uh historical notes as far as 1776

630
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:10,159
with dominguez and escalante coming

631
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:11,679
through the area saying hey this place

632
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:12,000
just

633
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:15,520
isn't right and they i think that even

634
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:19,200
mormon uh uh surveyors said the only

635
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,480
thing this is

636
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,320
serving a purpose for is holding the

637
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,919
earth together and that kind of

638
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,679
resonates with me now because maybe

639
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,520
that's exactly what we're looking at is

640
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:28,799
a place that's just kind of

641
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:32,880
holding the whole expletive show

642
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:39,510
and so and then go into a little bit

643
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,400
more of that of that history

644
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:43,760
because i think that is really really

645
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:45,760
fascinating

646
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:49,440
yeah um okay so it goes i i grew up

647
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,640
living across from a gentleman whose

648
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:54,720
family was very

649
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:57,760
uh involved and uppity let's say in the

650
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,799
vernal area

651
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,320
and they owned right there at main

652
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:02,400
street where it meets with

653
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:04,880
you know all the all the major real

654
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:05,440
estate

655
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,360
they were involved with and at the time

656
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,880
i didn't think anything of it but as a

657
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,720
kid he would tell stories about when he

658
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,159
was up in vernal

659
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:17,360
and drive in a semi truck and

660
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:19,360
he would come across weird things in the

661
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,760
night and he would park on these oil

662
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,760
roads and stuff would push on his truck

663
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:25,679
and we're talking 70s

664
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:29,600
maybe yeah early 70s 73 74

665
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,880
and i was born in 75 so it predates me

666
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:35,039
but i i grew up like this guy was

667
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:36,400
telling me about this place that i'd

668
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:37,039
never been

669
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:39,039
and i thought i would never go to and

670
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,799
ended up being a place i can't get out

671
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:41,919
of my life now

672
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,520
but vernal utah and um

673
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,679
it was this mysterious place and now

674
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:49,279
it's just kind of like a hub of high

675
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:50,640
strangeness for me so

676
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:53,679
it goes way back but yeah it it

677
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,919
the story i think you're talking about

678
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:58,000
not to get tangential which i do at

679
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:00,720
times i apologize

680
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:04,960
um the story of a very

681
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:09,760
notable real estate broker slash

682
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:13,200
realtor uh in the area who is very well

683
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:14,320
respected

684
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:18,320
including information and

685
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,840
this person just happens to be kind of a

686
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:24,720
an amazing archive of information uh

687
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,520
with

688
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,600
things that go way back to the times i'm

689
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,360
i'm talking about and predate that

690
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:31,200
in the area she's kind of into this high

691
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:32,640
strangest but doesn't want anyone to

692
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,440
know

693
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,760
and this is important because she

694
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:37,760
doesn't want to come forward but i

695
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:41,279
it's easy to connect the dots and

696
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,039
the uh she she's the owner of

697
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:47,120
one of the largest real estate companies

698
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:48,240
and and i know where

699
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:49,679
you need to get some of these archives

700
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:51,039
or at least get your eyes on them so

701
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:52,320
we'll make this happen

702
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:55,440
but the um the story goes

703
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,640
that a gentleman who was far from

704
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:00,880
being that just kind of bustled into her

705
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,080
office

706
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:04,640
he was of russian descent said his name

707
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:05,840
was slugger

708
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,120
he had a van or an suv outside with a

709
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:11,520
ton of gold bars sitting under a blanket

710
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,240
in the back

711
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,399
went outside and showed it to her first

712
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,000
you know as brusque he was like a bull

713
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,240
in a china shop like here's the cash

714
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:19,760
went back inside and said this is what i

715
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,200
need you to do

716
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,520
there's a guy that wants to sell me this

717
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:25,360
6 000 acre ranch

718
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,960
but it's just to do portal technology

719
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:30,320
but this came out later the portal

720
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:32,000
technology part she had to dig to get

721
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,360
that information i'm just trying to

722
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:35,360
condense and make it go faster

723
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:38,000
but um yeah how do i make it happen but

724
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,520
i don't want my name on paper

725
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:41,360
and it's a 10-year stint and we've

726
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,880
already taken care of the oil companies

727
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,080
how do we do this

728
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:46,240
and she said i don't i can't do this and

729
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:47,679
that's where she

730
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:50,000
plagued and plunged and delved and

731
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,360
proped and prodded to

732
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,440
ask what the property was being used for

733
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,880
to see if they could find some kind of

734
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:56,240
legal loophole

735
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:58,799
to sublet the property in some legal

736
00:29:02,470 --> 00:28:59,600
format

737
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:02,480
as payment payment for you know exchange

738
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,919
of goods or services

739
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,760
and when he said portal technology

740
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:07,760
there's obviously no no box in in the

741
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:08,640
real estate

742
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,880
that i've come across that says that so

743
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:12,080
she couldn't find a way

744
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:13,760
to find a loophole to sublet the

745
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:15,279
property and said she couldn't help him

746
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:15,600
and

747
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:25,039
the portal technology we've heard so

748
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,760
much

749
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,600
about this and you know then you you've

750
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,039
got people like

751
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,840
you know firmidge and pendolfy and and

752
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:33,440
all of these things and

753
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:36,399
and i think things get very muddied what

754
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:37,840
were your

755
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:40,159
thoughts about what he was referring to

756
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:41,840
with regard to portal technology was

757
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:42,320
this

758
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:45,360
man-made thing

759
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:48,880
a combination of potentially both or

760
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:55,269
honestly it sounded like

761
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,399
a like a russian gesture

762
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:01,520
of rushing jumping the gun and

763
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:04,399
trying to catch up with our military

764
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:11,029
okay and and that is interesting and i

765
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:11,360
think

766
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:13,760
a lot of people don't understand how

767
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,399
much

768
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:17,039
we have with regard to the military with

769
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:18,159
you know defense and aerospace

770
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:19,360
contractors

771
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:22,640
in utah and also in the area that you're

772
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,110
yeah if i were to guess it is and and

773
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,200
there's i i haven't seen it and i don't

774
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,120
have any like definitive proof

775
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,520
and again even what i'm saying is second

776
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:37,120
person even though i do have some the

777
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:39,039
story goes on i did make contact with

778
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:41,200
slugger and it wasn't pretty but

779
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:44,320
the the truth is he was an

780
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,840
ugly individual i think and um

781
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:49,840
i don't think he was one of our guys he

782
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:50,880
wasn't he wasn't

783
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:54,080
on the united states team

784
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,789
this would have put smack dab around oh

785
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:01,919
gosh this was in the

786
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,000
0-8 i'd say 0809

787
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:11,909
interesting well and yeah we're gonna i

788
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:13,279
want to talk about that a little bit

789
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:13,679
later

790
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:16,960
because it's you know i mean you hear

791
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,799
these things and then

792
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,919
you know a lot of times you just think

793
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:22,080
oh that's you know complete garbage or

794
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,960
people are

795
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:24,960
you know this is a conspiracy and people

796
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:27,360
are at reading too much into things and

797
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,159
and it's like for me i go you know i've

798
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:32,720
changed my opinion every day i change my

799
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:35,519
my opinion on stuff but now to kind of

800
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:36,559
understand

801
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:40,240
more of how how much uh testing there is

802
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,919
potentially going on in that area it

803
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:43,440
would make sense that

804
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,919
other actors would be stepping in and

805
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:46,960
wanting to

806
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:50,480
see what was going on but yep you never

807
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,039
know

808
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,320
when you first

809
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,880
moved up there did you have any contact

810
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,000
with the shermans

811
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:02,720
um okay so and to back up a little bit

812
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:03,919
i'm gonna get to your uh

813
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,720
no and to get to your not that i know of

814
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:08,480
and to get to your question

815
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:10,640
um i was just looking at my notes and i

816
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:11,679
lied to you it was

817
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:14,880
about 2010 to 2012.

818
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,870
interesting

819
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:25,669
okay and so the shermans had kind of

820
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,080
they

821
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:28,640
had moved uh when you when you first

822
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:31,360
moved up there right

823
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:34,399
um they were still

824
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,600
let's see i'm thinking they were still

825
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:39,679
if i'm if i'm not mistaken there was a

826
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,000
big move okay so there was a large move

827
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,080
where they went north and then i believe

828
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:46,159
they came back to the south close by

829
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:48,399
about 60 miles away

830
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,679
and um that is the last

831
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,200
i've i believe they're still in

832
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:55,039
proximity right there the last i heard

833
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:56,480
they were thinking about coming a little

834
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,240
closer but i don't know if that move

835
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:01,519
ever took place okay

836
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:04,159
and you know when when all of this kind

837
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:04,720
of

838
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:07,360
broke i mean we obviously had the zac

839
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:07,919
venic

840
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:10,960
articles and and things and then

841
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,679
bigelow buying the property and and all

842
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:15,120
of this and

843
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:18,640
it and so i mean do you know any

844
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:21,200
i mean what kernels of information can

845
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:22,559
you give us about

846
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:25,120
the way all of that went down and how

847
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:26,000
this kind of

848
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:33,830
um okay so

849
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,320
the best information i think is just

850
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,480
getting it right from the source

851
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,559
which would be zack who i recently did a

852
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,000
podcast with and it was pretty

853
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,000
fascinating to hear him

854
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:46,159
explain how it all went down you know

855
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:47,120
meeting

856
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:50,399
know

857
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:55,679
talking to junior and and kind of poking

858
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:57,120
and prodding a little more than the

859
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:58,880
average journalist and then junior

860
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:59,919
finally saying yeah

861
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:02,320
you need to talk to gwen and then that

862
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,840
led to going down to the bank and

863
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,679
talking to gwen and that led to him

864
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,600
going out to the property and

865
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,919
sort of sort of getting the idea that

866
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:11,679
hey this place isn't quite

867
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:15,119
right and um after he realized the place

868
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,879
wasn't quite right

869
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,960
some other coincidental things took

870
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:21,359
place and he reached out to people

871
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:24,800
and you know i guess things either got

872
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:27,839
less quite right or more right i don't

873
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,079
know but things got weirder for sure

874
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,480
to me it's interesting because at the

875
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:37,440
time

876
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:40,240
zach was writing for the deseret news

877
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:41,040
which is

878
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:44,399
a very conservative newspaper

879
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:47,760
and so for them to be running with this

880
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:48,240
story

881
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,240
that is so you know out there

882
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:55,280
it seems a little unusual what what do

883
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:57,440
you think what is your take on that

884
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,160
why would the desert news you know do a

885
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:02,880
story like that

886
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,680
i believe that and i say this with all

887
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:06,960
respect my father

888
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:10,800
was the leading missionary

889
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,720
in peru as far as uh you know

890
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:17,440
getting people signed on and and and he

891
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:17,920
you know

892
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:21,280
i was i was very very well hurst in

893
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:24,480
in mormon culture literature

894
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,839
kids books you know since every night

895
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:30,240
i was reading you know a book out of the

896
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,839
mormon library and a book out of the

897
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,520
catholic library both parents were

898
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:35,520
pushing their agendas hard

899
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:39,200
and the interesting thing is the mormon

900
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,119
religion i can say this honestly

901
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:44,240
is quite steeped as well as catholicism

902
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,359
in ufology i mean there's all kinds of

903
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,280
strange tablets and

904
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,920
strange things in the sky and angels

905
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,599
that say don't be scared because they're

906
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:55,200
horrifying as they come down

907
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:57,920
and all kinds of stuff and so these

908
00:36:03,589 --> 00:35:59,680
these i think that these religions

909
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:03,599
already have an underlayment of sorts

910
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:06,880
um that make fertile ground for

911
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:13,510
and it i i i think it is really

912
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:15,359
fascinating and the more i

913
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,640
look at things and the more i look at

914
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:18,800
the lds religion and and

915
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,400
and the things it's just it's

916
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:23,040
fascinating i had the remote viewer paul

917
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,839
smith

918
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,920
on my show last week and it was

919
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,359
fascinating to hear

920
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:30,480
from you know his perspective he is lds

921
00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:30,800
and

922
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:40,640
connections uh with regard to that so

923
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,280
i i don't know it's a trip but you know

924
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:45,040
so we've got the story that comes out

925
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:45,839
and then

926
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:48,880
you know bigelow comes in and so if

927
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:51,920
somebody could look at this and say okay

928
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:54,560
you know this somebody you know this

929
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:55,200
reporter

930
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:59,119
is creating a story laying a foundation

931
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:02,400
so if somebody came in and was

932
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:05,520
in fact going to be doing testing of

933
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:06,560
some sort

934
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,240
then you would have this brilliant

935
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:11,280
narrative of oh it was a ufo and so

936
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:13,040
people wouldn't really look any further

937
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:15,040
they would dismiss it

938
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,240
what do you i mean do you think that

939
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:18,320
that could have been almost a cover

940
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:18,960
story

941
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:21,760
for something more nefarious going on in

942
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:24,160
that area

943
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:27,680
well there is another very real

944
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,280
angle to the to the story and to zach

945
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:33,280
and that's the fact that he was

946
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,240
previously down in new mexico and

947
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:39,119
he had kind of broken some pretty

948
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:40,320
mind-boggling

949
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:43,599
um cattle mutilation cases which

950
00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:46,640
you know which odd inherently a lot of

951
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,680
these cases

952
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,400
odd things were found on the scene uh

953
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,320
you know some farmers were convinced it

954
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:54,240
was the military doing it

955
00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:57,119
others were convinced it was a spiritual

956
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,240
enlightenment

957
00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,079
and others were convinced it was the

958
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:02,160
same players you know it was aliens

959
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:05,440
so it's kind of the same trifecta of

960
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:09,119
uh of of whatever the observer

961
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:12,720
decides to categorize this as

962
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:15,119
and you know and that's that's fun how

963
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:16,800
how do people think it's spiritual

964
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:23,910
i guess that just i guess that just

965
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:25,200
means they didn't die

966
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,560
i don't know oh good okay okay

967
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:31,200
just checking you know that you bring up

968
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:32,880
a really great point the fact that he

969
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:34,000
was involved in

970
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:35,359
investigating some of these cattle

971
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:37,599
mutilations and and you know when you

972
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,480
look at

973
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:40,640
colm kelleher's background who worked

974
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,720
for the cdc and was working

975
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:45,359
on uh you know mad cow disease and

976
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,160
things

977
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:48,640
of that nature and also the one of the

978
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,320
few things that made it to the light of

979
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,839
the soveletta day with regard to the

980
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:52,720
ned's

981
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,359
uh stuff which was supposed to be put

982
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:56,720
forward but wasn't

983
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:58,880
uh was the cattle mutilations and the

984
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:00,400
radiation

985
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:07,430
so it just is it the whole thing is just

986
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,560
a trip but what

987
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,800
what do you think now just to go off

988
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:12,079
track a little teeny bit what do you

989
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:13,200
think about

990
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:14,720
cattle mutilations where do you stand

991
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:21,589
i know less today i think than i ever

992
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:22,320
have

993
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:25,119
and it's sad to say that because i used

994
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:26,400
to be 100

995
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:30,000
sure it was aliens period done that was

996
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,240
it

997
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,560
signed seal delivered i'll you know meet

998
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:34,720
you out back and fight you over it

999
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:38,960
well not anymore it is um

1000
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,079
there's a lot more going on and uh

1001
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:44,320
even you know i i love some of the

1002
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:45,359
theories i even

1003
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:47,760
zach kind of blew my mind speaking of

1004
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,800
zach again

1005
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:50,720
he kind of blew my mind with a theory

1006
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,960
that they may be et miners

1007
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,720
and sure this is going down the alien

1008
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,400
path again but

1009
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:58,320
very interesting you know i was like wow

1010
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,920
this is kind of this could be some of

1011
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,280
the things that i've seen you know it's

1012
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,280
a one light on their head and

1013
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:05,040
but then i thought well that's just

1014
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,880
there's so many theories

1015
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,960
and that's the fascinating thing with

1016
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:10,160
this metaphysical

1017
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,400
prism that is the uintah basin

1018
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,400
and that is interesting i mean it it's

1019
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,079
um i know that

1020
00:40:22,829 --> 00:40:21,119
dr eric davis was on the record saying

1021
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,839
that the cattle mutilations were

1022
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:24,079
man-made

1023
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:26,000
and when you look at the specific areas

1024
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:27,440
where the academy relations were taking

1025
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:28,560
place was there

1026
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,400
you know maybe you went to basin uh

1027
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:32,400
there was a great deal of

1028
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:35,599
nuclear fallout in the area could

1029
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:37,200
could that be connected could somebody

1030
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:39,359
come in and try to do

1031
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:42,319
testing to see what what was taking

1032
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:48,230
that's a good question now i don't know

1033
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:50,000
if this has been done already and i'm

1034
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:51,280
sure it has

1035
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:55,119
as far as testing the environmental uh

1036
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:58,000
categories and radiation i know that

1037
00:41:02,309 --> 00:40:59,839
it's it's a popular thing you see on

1038
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:02,319
television shows but in reality i can't

1039
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:04,000
speak for all television shows but i'm

1040
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,440
just talking you know as somebody who

1041
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:07,280
watches television shows i'm not talking

1042
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:07,920
about

1043
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,200
any particular show in the uintah basin

1044
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:14,079
but even ghost even ghost hunting shows

1045
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:15,200
um you watch

1046
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:18,560
uh you know mythbusters they're using

1047
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:21,359
the same technology television has

1048
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:21,839
really

1049
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,400
heightened people's i just don't know if

1050
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,480
you could accurately test in the uh

1051
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,079
basin for something like that

1052
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:30,720
and i think the idea that fallout from

1053
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,280
vegas

1054
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:33,520
made it all the way there is total bs i

1055
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,480
don't know maybe

1056
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:36,800
but i mean if that's the case then i'm

1057
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:43,030
well you know i do believe that there

1058
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,480
have been some

1059
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:46,640
some studies that kind of back that up

1060
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:48,960
which is is interesting and

1061
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,079
um you know that the yeah the whole

1062
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:53,760
thing is very curious but i find

1063
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,480
it cold keller's background most

1064
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:58,480
interesting you know with regard to

1065
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:01,359
what he was looking into um and at the

1066
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,079
cdc

1067
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:04,400
and and i think that you can you know he

1068
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,200
wrote a book

1069
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:08,480
uh it was a brain trust about

1070
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:12,160
that very issue um and and so not the

1071
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:13,680
cattle mutilations but the

1072
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:16,319
prion disease and things and it's just i

1073
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:18,240
don't know it's all fascinating so

1074
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:21,200
you so zach was on the cattle mutilation

1075
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:22,319
trail and then

1076
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:25,520
he somehow hears about this ranch do you

1077
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:27,680
remember how specifically he heard

1078
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:29,040
about what the shermans were going

1079
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:30,720
through

1080
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:33,680
you know if i remember correctly um he

1081
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,319
was

1082
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:36,800
sort of even the cattle mutilation story

1083
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:37,359
thing

1084
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,040
intrigued him because he's kind of a

1085
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:41,280
punk rock guy and somehow punk rock and

1086
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,240
ufos just

1087
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,960
always seem to go like tea and crumpets

1088
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,640
and

1089
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,640
this thing just kind of intrigued him

1090
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:50,960
and i guess he was in new mexico

1091
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,839
and his his story of these cattle

1092
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,520
mutilations i mean

1093
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,200
very interesting you know some of them

1094
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,280
he'd arrive and the

1095
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:02,000
the the patrol officer that came out to

1096
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,280
the scene and saw it

1097
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:05,280
would literally drive to the church you

1098
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:07,200
know to talk to the pastor first before

1099
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:08,880
he would talk to zach

1100
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,000
and so these were very emotional

1101
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,400
and like wow boots on the ground type

1102
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:16,240
investigations that he was involved with

1103
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:17,839
and he was he's kind of built for it

1104
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:20,160
he's built for business in that aspect

1105
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:23,680
but the interesting thing is that

1106
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:26,880
he moved on so that job kind of played

1107
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,280
out

1108
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:30,560
and from what i understand he uh

1109
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:33,040
was looking for work and had already

1110
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,240
kind of

1111
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:36,319
put out feelers in utah but hadn't had

1112
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:37,520
any hits

1113
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:41,920
he i believe put out to the tribune but

1114
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:42,960
didn't know that they were

1115
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:46,640
owned by the deseret news and um

1116
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:49,520
because they seemed to compete but then

1117
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:50,079
he

1118
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,400
remember i'm pretty sure it's

1119
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,079
that way and then later on

1120
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,119
he actually got a call from them

1121
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:03,920
and uh it was just kind of like hired on

1122
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:07,920
quickly from what i understand

1123
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:08,640
interesting

1124
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,000
articles are

1125
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:14,720
you know they they will they're i

1126
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:16,400
remember reading them i'd still read

1127
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,960
them to

1128
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:19,200
go back over things and it was a very

1129
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:20,240
interesting

1130
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:23,119
uh series that he did and he put that on

1131
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:24,560
the map and then

1132
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:27,200
uh you know and then the book and things

1133
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:27,680
and

1134
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:28,960
one of the questions that i've been

1135
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,160
asking myself lately is if they were

1136
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:33,839
if they didn't want this in the

1137
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,359
spotlight and then

1138
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:37,520
you know you've heard several people say

1139
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,200
that we're involved with this

1140
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,200
it should be kind of kept out of the

1141
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:43,119
prying eyes of the public but then why

1142
00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:43,920
was it

1143
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:50,319
pushed in the public in a big way i

1144
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:53,040
think that this enigma and this this is

1145
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:55,359
just my own personal opinion so and i'm

1146
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:55,760
not

1147
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,359
like an expert i'm just somebody who

1148
00:45:02,630 --> 00:44:59,520
spent way too much time doing this

1149
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:02,640
and i i think that this enigma in

1150
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:03,280
general

1151
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:06,480
it seems i was that person where

1152
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:09,839
i remember having arguments at end with

1153
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,480
ryan skinner at we can't post we don't

1154
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:13,920
want anybody to know where

1155
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:16,880
anything is like are you crazy and you

1156
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,640
know there's different opinions of

1157
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,240
of you know some people just want to get

1158
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,920
information out there and others want to

1159
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,359
keep secrets and

1160
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,839
i don't think i'm a secret keeper but

1161
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:27,200
you know i thought

1162
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:29,280
even way back then i thought oh my gosh

1163
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,119
we don't want everyone

1164
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:33,440
to know where this is because it is

1165
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,319
special

1166
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:37,200
and um but then i understood his point

1167
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,079
it's special

1168
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,520
so there are people that should know

1169
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:41,599
where it is and there's so many

1170
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:42,160
different

1171
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:45,520
perspectives but the you know i don't

1172
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:45,839
know

1173
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:49,280
it's it's it's an area that as time has

1174
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:50,000
progressed

1175
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,400
i've turned into instead of uh someone

1176
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,319
who is a gatekeeper says no i don't want

1177
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:55,920
people out there but

1178
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:58,240
now i'm more like a person that says you

1179
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:00,800
probably don't want to go out there

1180
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:03,520
but if you have to just be safe about it

1181
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,560
and you'll know

1182
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,319
right away whether it's something you're

1183
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:08,960
into or not

1184
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:11,280
right absolutely that's that's the thing

1185
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,160
i mean i

1186
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,200
i was you know the first one running up

1187
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:17,119
there because it was just so intriguing

1188
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:18,880
to me and the more i've learned

1189
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,440
the more i just think i i would i would

1190
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:23,359
probably discourage people yeah

1191
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:25,040
from from going up there because you

1192
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:26,800
just don't know what the health effects

1193
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:27,680
will be you don't know what you're

1194
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:28,960
actually dealing with at the end of the

1195
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,280
day

1196
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:32,240
and and that can never be good but you

1197
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:33,359
know you say that and then that just

1198
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,440
makes people want to go up there more

1199
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:38,160
yeah yeah you get the oh i'm you know

1200
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:39,680
i'm tougher than the other weekend

1201
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:40,319
warrior

1202
00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:43,599
effect and the the scarier thing is

1203
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,920
i totally get that but these effects we

1204
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,040
don't know what they

1205
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:49,680
are if it could be cataclysmic i mean if

1206
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:50,319
this really

1207
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,720
is just just a place that kind of holds

1208
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,480
the earth together and it has these

1209
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,240
metaphysical tendencies

1210
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:59,119
and non-corporeal entities that can

1211
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:00,319
engage with you

1212
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:03,440
in ways that can be medic medically

1213
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:06,800
catastrophic and in some cases have

1214
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:09,920
well you know it can be bad and uh you

1215
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:10,319
don't

1216
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:14,400
heard so many stories of people who

1217
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:17,359
just have mental issues afterwards and

1218
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:18,160
just that

1219
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:19,599
i mean just think of somebody having

1220
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:21,359
mental issues after going to some place

1221
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:22,000
once

1222
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,280
that's that's not cool

1223
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,599
right and and that also could

1224
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:29,200
potentially be because they're stumbling

1225
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,400
into something that is

1226
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,760
is man-made that has dangerous

1227
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,200
effects i mean you look at what took

1228
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:37,920
place at in cuba you know at the embassy

1229
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:38,400
and

1230
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:41,760
that is coming to light the technologies

1231
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:43,280
that we have i can't even imagine what

1232
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:44,000
we

1233
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,440
because you know how things usually

1234
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:50,160
are put out that are 20 years you know

1235
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:51,599
or behind the scenes

1236
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,160
with regard to that but some of the the

1237
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,400
uh effects that were experienced in the

1238
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:58,160
embassy were some of the effects that

1239
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:58,880
have been

1240
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:01,119
experienced on and around the ranch

1241
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:08,069
yeah um i can't speak to that but what

1242
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:09,200
were the effects that

1243
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:12,319
that were found at the embassy so

1244
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:14,160
the the effects were you know the

1245
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:15,520
ringing in the ears

1246
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:18,640
uh nausea uh vertigo

1247
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,720
uh at there you know some of the people

1248
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:24,480
experienced brain damage permanent brain

1249
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,079
damage uh

1250
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:28,319
so it was pretty interesting and in the

1251
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,720
past couple weeks there have been

1252
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:33,440
quite a few stories that have come out

1253
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:34,000
about that

1254
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:36,720
made the big investigation that that we

1255
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,599
had done with regard to that

1256
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:41,119
so it's all curious you know it's

1257
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:42,800
curious to see how some of this can

1258
00:48:47,829 --> 00:48:45,599
you know now we've got the this new

1259
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:47,839
theme coming out over

1260
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:51,119
the holidays and it's the voice to skull

1261
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,359
stuff and so i know that you and my

1262
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:54,480
husband were talking

1263
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:56,319
the other night and he was mentioning

1264
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,520
that i mean now you've got this

1265
00:49:03,510 --> 00:48:59,760
commercial product that is capable of

1266
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:03,520
beaming a whole movie into your brain

1267
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:05,839
and sounds and you know all of these

1268
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:07,200
things and it's like oh my gosh we've

1269
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:08,960
got this technology

1270
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,880
that can do all of that maybe mimic

1271
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:15,280
things that are paranormal which i find

1272
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:16,640
fascinating and so

1273
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:19,680
you know what's what's technology what

1274
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:20,880
is paranormal

1275
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,000
it's all so blurry and perhaps they they

1276
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:26,319
plan it that way the powers that be you

1277
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,000
know that's that's their

1278
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:31,520
mo i guess

1279
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:34,559
yeah the i can't speak to anything

1280
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:37,359
as far as well what i what i can speak

1281
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:38,079
to

1282
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:41,440
is the technology is amazing and that

1283
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:44,480
yes uh our our

1284
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:47,839
enemies or um

1285
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,000
are trying to do the same thing and as

1286
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,240
usual are doing so if you look it up

1287
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,160
online they're doing so in a very crude

1288
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:56,000
manner compared to what we've already

1289
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:56,880
perfected

1290
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:01,839
according to skydio which is the

1291
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:05,599
well okay so you can't

1292
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:08,160
you can't have somebody in the field

1293
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,200
that i'm aware of

1294
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:12,000
looking at a remote control and you know

1295
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:13,920
being boots on the ground with

1296
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,520
dudes around him because he's going to

1297
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:17,599
get taken out and so

1298
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:20,000
from what i understand and i am not you

1299
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,000
know i don't i don't go to defcon i

1300
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:24,000
don't i am this is not my area of

1301
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,200
expertise

1302
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:26,960
but from what i understand our

1303
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,559
government is doing their best

1304
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,640
to figure out technologies that will

1305
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,640
understand the neural

1306
00:50:37,829 --> 00:50:36,000
requests of the driver

1307
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,839
which is the the person who's telling

1308
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:39,359
the drone where to go what to do

1309
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:47,030
which is you know i mean i think from my

1310
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:48,160
understanding

1311
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:51,520
uh these were things

1312
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:54,720
that the group associated with

1313
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:57,839
all of this has been looking up for

1314
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:01,200
for decades and i find that you know

1315
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,800
that fascinating in and of itself

1316
00:51:08,069 --> 00:51:06,480
but i think the technology that comes

1317
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:08,079
out and even you know i was looking at

1318
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:08,880
some

1319
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:12,000
day and just the

1320
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,480
incredible things they're capable of and

1321
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:16,319
i think most people who

1322
00:51:19,990 --> 00:51:19,119
you know didn't obsess like i do and and

1323
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:20,000
didn't have an

1324
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:22,000
understanding of you know what was

1325
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,920
really flowing around in our skies would

1326
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,680
see some of these lights and think oh my

1327
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:27,200
god it's a ufo

1328
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:29,359
when in that you know actuality it's

1329
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:30,800
probably not but

1330
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,280
i mean it's crazy and so where do you

1331
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:34,960
how do you draw the line and especially

1332
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:35,520
with

1333
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:37,920
a place like skinwalker ranch when or

1334
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,599
that the surrounding area you know

1335
00:51:42,549 --> 00:51:41,200
you've got

1336
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,559
you know i mean you and i have had

1337
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:44,400
experiences and then

1338
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:47,599
and then the waters are so muddied

1339
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,839
and then you don't know you know what

1340
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:52,000
way is up i mean was this paranormal was

1341
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,720
this

1342
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,960
you know some sort of experiment what

1343
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,319
you know i mean

1344
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:58,160
i don't know and how do you how have you

1345
00:52:03,670 --> 00:51:59,599
over the years

1346
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:06,470
well the way i see it is if it's if if

1347
00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:07,839
we are

1348
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:10,000
just barely looking beyond the veil and

1349
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:12,160
in certain areas that are remote like

1350
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:13,119
the deserts

1351
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:15,440
and things of that nature maybe we're

1352
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,680
seeing some kind of testing

1353
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,359
just imagine what the cities are like

1354
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:21,359
we're literally living in a proverbial

1355
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:22,480
soup of

1356
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:26,000
5g and 4g technology that hasn't

1357
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,680
been tested just rolled out with

1358
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,280
inadequacy and quickness

1359
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:31,920
and you know the testing there it comes

1360
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:33,920
again that darn word you know is

1361
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:37,280
key and i think that you know

1362
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:39,839
a lot of the things that we take for

1363
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:41,359
granted unfortunately are

1364
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:44,400
all military by-products

1365
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:47,200
you know uh the internet and many of the

1366
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,640
other things that we've discussed

1367
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:50,880
so it's such a double-edged sword erica

1368
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,280
i don't you know we have to stay up

1369
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:55,839
in front of in in front of our enemies

1370
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:56,640
we can't

1371
00:53:01,349 --> 00:53:00,559
just be singing kumbaya around a

1372
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,359
campfire

1373
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:04,400
in the desert but on the other hand

1374
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:06,319
you know you don't want to be flying a

1375
00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:08,000
drone into that campfire and

1376
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:09,359
blowing up the people that are doing

1377
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:11,680
that right i mean

1378
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,200
yeah that's the interesting thing with

1379
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,920
that with regard to the the 5g

1380
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:18,720
technology uh and and arpanet you know

1381
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:19,280
the

1382
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:23,440
university of utah

1383
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,559
is and stanford research institute with

1384
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:28,720
regard to arpanet but with the 5g

1385
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:30,960
technology we were one of the first

1386
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:34,720
places uh to actually roll out testing

1387
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:37,520
on this and we were testing uh in a

1388
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:38,880
community

1389
00:53:44,069 --> 00:53:42,880
which i find absolutely fascinating so

1390
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:44,079
and i know that there were you know a

1391
00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:46,400
few news reports about that and

1392
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:48,480
some people questioning that the safety

1393
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:49,920
which many of the people around the

1394
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:51,760
world have questioned the safety because

1395
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:52,559
of its

1396
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,920
ideas capability to be used uh

1397
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:58,559
as a weapon and what are the harmful

1398
00:54:02,230 --> 00:53:59,119
effects

1399
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:02,240
from being associated being around uh

1400
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:03,760
you know the towers and things i mean

1401
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:05,440
all of it is just fascinating but utah

1402
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:06,480
really is

1403
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:10,079
a a hub of testing

1404
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:14,079
like this i i can't i don't know if it

1405
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,559
is

1406
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:16,480
i've heard the rumors and we're kind of

1407
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:17,839
discussing those things

1408
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,760
you know in other cases like this

1409
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,520
location known as gl2

1410
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:24,000
that this this russian individual wanted

1411
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:25,599
to buy that is

1412
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,240
um miles and miles and miles well and

1413
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:29,920
that's the thing is the uinta basin is a

1414
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:30,480
very

1415
00:54:36,069 --> 00:54:35,280
i'd say that there's a good 80 square

1416
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:36,079
mile

1417
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:38,400
area that you could probably paint all

1418
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:39,760
red it's it's that

1419
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:43,520
hot and uh that's why it's laughable

1420
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:44,799
that some of these

1421
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,760
boundary lines are like critical however

1422
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:49,680
i do see why military would need

1423
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:51,599
plausible deniability in probably about

1424
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:52,160
6

1425
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:54,640
000 acres like this ranch was to do what

1426
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:55,440
they were going to do

1427
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,480
unfortunately in the story i recounted

1428
00:55:01,990 --> 00:55:00,400
it was a russian individual that was

1429
00:55:04,789 --> 00:55:02,000
doing this and

1430
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:04,799
you know as i look back a lot of the

1431
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:05,200
hush

1432
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:09,040
detrimental because

1433
00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:10,720
if this person would have been more

1434
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:12,079
forthcoming and quick and would have

1435
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:13,359
been talking about it it would have

1436
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,960
gotten national attention

1437
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:16,559
quote unquote nsa would have

1438
00:55:19,109 --> 00:55:18,319
investigated it all probably would have

1439
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:19,119
been shut down

1440
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:21,920
by now i think it went the other way i

1441
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,319
think

1442
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:24,720
that they did what they did and either

1443
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:27,119
succeeded or probably got defeated

1444
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,319
and and here we are you know dealing

1445
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:33,280
and who knows how many quote-unquote

1446
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:34,880
sightings came out of that

1447
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:37,359
so i don't know like it's hard to tell

1448
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:39,040
you know it there's there's all kinds of

1449
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:39,599
craft

1450
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:42,000
drones personal private drones some of

1451
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:43,599
them illegal some of them aren't

1452
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:46,720
sadly you know uh probably

1453
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,000
not our friends and

1454
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:52,640
um you know there's there's all kinds of

1455
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:54,559
angles to this so it's it's tough you

1456
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,480
know with the 5g thing

1457
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,720
it's very difficult because you know why

1458
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:00,079
do we need it you know it's going to

1459
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:02,640
cause this and cause that and well we

1460
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:03,920
need it because your guy

1461
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:05,920
and i mean like you know actually yeah

1462
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:07,520
literally like your guy could be in

1463
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:08,480
battle

1464
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:10,960
and he needs to get the information

1465
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:12,000
faster than

1466
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:16,240
the enemy you know so it's tough

1467
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,520
absolutely i i agree with you on on that

1468
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:21,680
absolutely yeah you know what i think

1469
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,119
you might be right that is insane

1470
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,440
wow where does time go i don't know i

1471
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:28,880
can look in the mirror and figure that

1472
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:30,880
one out but

1473
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:33,520
it's just it is so crazy how you know i

1474
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,119
mean you and i have been through

1475
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,400
so much and had um

1476
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:40,960
we had an interesting relationship and

1477
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,000
and i'm glad that we

1478
00:56:45,510 --> 00:56:44,640
you know are in touch again and all of

1479
00:56:47,349 --> 00:56:45,520
that because i

1480
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,359
there's so much that i can learn from

1481
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,200
you and vice versa we're

1482
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:51,680
both on this quest and we care very much

1483
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:52,400
about

1484
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,119
the area you know the uh basin the

1485
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:57,359
people the land it's just an exquisite

1486
00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:58,480
place and

1487
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:01,599
and so so much mystery going on and you

1488
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:02,319
were

1489
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:03,520
you know talking about a little bit

1490
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:04,880
before we went to the break you were

1491
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:06,960
talking about you know gl2

1492
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:10,559
and this russian uh slugger

1493
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,880
who you know who wanted to buy the

1494
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,839
property what

1495
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:15,920
can you tell us what your what your

1496
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:18,960
interaction with him was

1497
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:22,000
yeah absolutely it was a weird one

1498
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:24,480
and and to my reference just to go back

1499
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,000
super quickly

1500
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:28,319
like to my reference of a drone crashing

1501
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:30,400
into folks singing kumbaya around a

1502
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:31,680
campfire

1503
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,200
um to clarify i i think the likelihood

1504
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,200
of some bozo with little to no

1505
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:38,640
experience

1506
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:41,200
is much more likely and i think i have

1507
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:42,799
some folks in mind and you probably know

1508
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:43,760
who

1509
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:46,799
than a military trained drone operator

1510
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,559
and that's why it's a good idea do not

1511
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:50,400
fly drones up there

1512
00:57:56,150 --> 00:57:53,520
there are no good guys in this game

1513
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:56,160
and uh there are our guys and there's

1514
00:58:02,789 --> 00:57:57,200
they're

1515
00:58:04,789 --> 00:58:02,799
you know humanity that's that's where we

1516
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:04,799
are at this point is humanity with

1517
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:08,000
with uh and with those chips my gamble's

1518
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:08,960
always going to be with

1519
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:11,680
our military but with that said this was

1520
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:13,359
obviously not our military this was

1521
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:14,799
somebody else's

1522
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:18,880
and uh this guy invited me to some very

1523
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:22,160
interesting affairs um

1524
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:25,520
offering to fly me to

1525
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:28,640
uh uh to it basically uh you know hey

1526
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:29,920
i'll put you up

1527
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:33,040
let's chat um everything's included

1528
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:35,200
you'll love it it's a big party

1529
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:42,390
uh you know that i would be freaking out

1530
00:58:45,829 --> 00:58:43,040
as well

1531
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:45,839
i may do what he did so did you approach

1532
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:48,720
him or did he approach you initially

1533
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:51,040
i approached him initially and got no

1534
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:52,319
response initially

1535
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:55,280
and then uh and then everything changed

1536
00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:56,640
and it went from

1537
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:59,359
like who are you where are you to hey

1538
00:59:02,710 --> 00:58:59,920
buddy

1539
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:02,720
you know let's uh let's hang out this is

1540
00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:10,069
and so how often was he up in the area

1541
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:12,160
oh he was in the area full time i don't

1542
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,280
know where his base

1543
00:59:16,549 --> 00:59:15,760
of operations was but you could tell

1544
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:16,559
that this guy

1545
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,960
was not driving the city roads he was

1546
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,040
driving country roads you know and

1547
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,440
and and this was i don't know who the

1548
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:29,109
and how long did it last then did you

1549
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,040
ever attend anything that he invited you

1550
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:33,440
to

1551
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:36,559
no i i i did not it

1552
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:39,440
at first i did kind of respond with a

1553
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:40,559
little bit of warmth

1554
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:42,640
and then i realized just what a slippery

1555
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,319
slope this could be and i mean the

1556
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:45,760
minute i take a flight out of the

1557
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:48,000
country all bets are off you know

1558
00:59:52,870 --> 00:59:51,200
so i just did none of it really it just

1559
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:52,880
didn't pass the sniff test to me and i

1560
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,920
was pretty stupid at that point

1561
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:57,520
well and that's the thing i think you

1562
01:00:02,069 --> 00:59:59,520
know a lot of people in

1563
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:02,079
you know a lot of us who get into this

1564
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:04,240
they don't understand the

1565
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:06,000
i don't know the dangers i think when

1566
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:07,440
you start sniffing around

1567
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:10,720
in in places where there is potential

1568
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:14,079
uh military testing or other things you

1569
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:15,200
know and so

1570
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:17,119
it's been you know fascinating for me to

1571
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:18,960
see the people who've approached me over

1572
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:19,760
the

1573
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:22,160
years but you know let's that brings me

1574
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:23,760
to you know my next

1575
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:26,880
uh question we hear so much about the

1576
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:29,040
men in black and

1577
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:32,160
for me looking into it the men in black

1578
01:00:39,030 --> 01:00:36,400
was is another kind of a way to hide

1579
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,040
things that are going on you know and so

1580
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:40,880
uh and i don't necessarily think it's

1581
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,760
paranormal

1582
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:44,240
those are my opinions but what you know

1583
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:45,680
tell us a little bit about

1584
01:00:49,190 --> 01:00:48,319
some of the unusual experiences with

1585
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:49,200
with you

1586
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:51,599
in the basin i know that you have shared

1587
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:52,720
some video with me

1588
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:55,520
and and that is available online from my

1589
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,559
understanding

1590
01:01:02,230 --> 01:00:58,960
where there were people that were coming

1591
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:05,750
yeah this was back in um

1592
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:08,240
it was it was a strange thing because it

1593
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:10,720
was a new area for me and i was still

1594
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:13,920
kind of getting established and

1595
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:16,160
i would have these for lack of a better

1596
01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:17,680
word intruders

1597
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:20,319
who seemed professional in capacity they

1598
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:21,440
were usually either

1599
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:24,240
armed with electrical devices or

1600
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:25,520
sidearms

1601
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:28,240
and they were always looking for

1602
01:01:32,710 --> 01:01:29,440
something in the same

1603
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:32,720
freaking area and it was three different

1604
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:33,520
times

1605
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,559
uh one guy the first time to the next

1606
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:38,799
i think to the last time and the last

1607
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:40,319
one is the most intriguing and i

1608
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:42,079
couldn't find that video i apologize

1609
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:43,680
it would make sense that it's online and

1610
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:45,200
i wouldn't know where it is so

1611
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:48,319
um but it's it's weird and

1612
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:49,599
you know there were some other

1613
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:51,280
interesting things that took place over

1614
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,000
there with

1615
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:54,960
uh other researchers ron johnson and

1616
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:56,240
daryl smith

1617
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:59,200
on one occasion there was an event with

1618
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:00,240
a guy that

1619
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:03,920
pulled into the famous uh

1620
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:05,680
parking lot beside where i lived where

1621
01:02:09,270 --> 01:02:07,599
these strange cars would often times

1622
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:09,280
pull at strange hours

1623
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:11,839
and um anyway who knows what it was this

1624
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,400
guy had

1625
01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:14,240
what looked and we only know this

1626
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,760
because we had night vision goggles but

1627
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:17,280
it looked like he got out of his car

1628
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:18,000
with

1629
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:20,960
a nerf gun or a super soaker or

1630
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:21,520
something

1631
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:25,200
ridiculous and uh

1632
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:27,039
so there was no reason to be afraid or

1633
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:28,400
at least we didn't think there was

1634
01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:30,400
and then he proceeded to walk towards us

1635
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:31,599
and aim it at us

1636
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:34,400
and i remember ron and myself both took

1637
01:02:37,430 --> 01:02:34,880
cover

1638
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,440
but daryl just kind of stood there and

1639
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:39,359
all we saw was

1640
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:41,839
what could be likened to a pulse or a

1641
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:43,039
light coming out of

1642
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:44,160
you know we were looking through night

1643
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:45,599
vision and that's where the

1644
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:47,039
miscommunication or maybe my

1645
01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:48,559
misperception comes in

1646
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,000
maybe it just had a light on the end of

1647
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:52,880
it but it sure did look like a

1648
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,119
pulse of some kind coming out of it and

1649
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:57,039
the weird coincidence to not make a long

1650
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:57,599
story

1651
01:03:02,069 --> 01:03:00,720
longer is that within a month daryl came

1652
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,079
down with a als

1653
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,559
lou gehrig's disease long story short

1654
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:06,640
got sick and died and

1655
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:09,039
you know it's uh it's a really sad tale

1656
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:10,000
but is there

1657
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:11,680
is there a correlation or is it just

1658
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:14,960
coincidence i don't know

1659
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:17,599
well i mean that certainly is odd an odd

1660
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:18,160
story

1661
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:19,680
you know even if you didn't have the

1662
01:03:22,470 --> 01:03:21,520
other intrigue around it i mean if

1663
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:22,480
somebody

1664
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:24,400
getting out close to your property and

1665
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:26,480
then taking out what appears to be

1666
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:29,599
a gun and and things like that and it is

1667
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:31,680
interesting because i've spoken with

1668
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:34,720
a fellow in the area who's lived there

1669
01:03:42,309 --> 01:03:38,240
his whole life and he had a similar

1670
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:42,319
experience where he was there was uh

1671
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:45,200
two fellows he believes and there was

1672
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:46,400
they were aiming

1673
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:49,440
some sort of weapon uh light weapon

1674
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:51,039
whatever at him

1675
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:54,559
and that induced some physical reactions

1676
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,799
in him and so that that really you know

1677
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:58,160
i was thinking about that after i talked

1678
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,520
to you the other night and you

1679
01:04:02,950 --> 01:04:01,119
told me that story again and i'm just

1680
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:02,960
like okay that's really

1681
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:07,359
quite curious so what is it is it just

1682
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:09,520
uh you know i mean are we making

1683
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:11,119
connections where there aren't any but

1684
01:04:13,510 --> 01:04:12,480
it's you know now you've got more than

1685
01:04:17,029 --> 01:04:13,520
one

1686
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:17,039
account of that which i find interesting

1687
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:20,799
and so i mean what what did ron

1688
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:22,720
feel about that and i know that you're

1689
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:24,640
very good friends with him he's a great

1690
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:25,520
person

1691
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:27,039
what has he thought about that over the

1692
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:29,119
years

1693
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:30,880
you know we thought it was strange at

1694
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,039
the time now

1695
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:36,079
um fast forward daryl getting sick

1696
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:39,119
we didn't even have time to kind of uh

1697
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:42,799
you know honestly i remember sitting

1698
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:46,240
with ryan layton at the funeral and

1699
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:50,000
saying to him man i daryl was there

1700
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:51,280
close by and i was thinking

1701
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:53,359
i wonder if this has to do with that

1702
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,720
weird night

1703
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:56,960
and discussing it at that point because

1704
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,160
you know these things happen

1705
01:05:01,910 --> 01:05:00,160
so quickly that you don't really want to

1706
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:01,920
bring it up especially while somebody's

1707
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:03,200
sick and dying

1708
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:05,920
but you know and that's the issue is are

1709
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:07,119
these things

1710
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:10,559
it could be a lot of miss misdiagnosis

1711
01:05:13,109 --> 01:05:12,000
because we don't know there's no

1712
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:13,119
legitimate proof

1713
01:05:18,150 --> 01:05:15,440
that i have that this was any kind of

1714
01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:18,160
pulse weapon it could just be some yahoo

1715
01:05:24,789 --> 01:05:21,599
with uh with a with his kid's gun

1716
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:24,799
after a few beers and you know it

1717
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:27,200
it's it's difficult to say what it is

1718
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:28,319
we're looking at now

1719
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:32,240
with with respect to

1720
01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:35,520
other countries doing testing and doing

1721
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:38,319
exercises in the area that's all i can

1722
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:39,440
actually

1723
01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:41,680
speak to because that's all i've seen

1724
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:43,039
and have 100

1725
01:05:49,270 --> 01:05:46,400
in my mind proof of and that is

1726
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:49,280
the fact that my believe it or not i had

1727
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:49,599
a

1728
01:05:56,309 --> 01:05:53,119
often who

1729
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:56,319
would install carpet and flooring and he

1730
01:06:00,309 --> 01:05:57,200
witnessed

1731
01:06:01,829 --> 01:06:00,319
uh on various occasions while he was at

1732
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:01,839
work doing this at different people's

1733
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,359
houses he would witness

1734
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:05,760
these strange engagements that he would

1735
01:06:10,069 --> 01:06:08,079
tell me about with

1736
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:10,079
military that did not seem like they

1737
01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:16,069
can you go a little bit more into detail

1738
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:18,319
about that

1739
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:21,200
i i can tell you that it took place on

1740
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:22,400
the ridges

1741
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:25,520
south of duchesne utah and

1742
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:28,640
i can tell you that it

1743
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:31,680
was it was not the russian military so

1744
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:32,720
it was another

1745
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:36,000
and another possible enemy but what's

1746
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:39,680
interesting is there's i don't know i

1747
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:40,559
mean

1748
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:42,319
when you ask these questions more people

1749
01:06:45,270 --> 01:06:43,760
come out of the woodwork and

1750
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:45,280
tell you stories about this kind of

1751
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,039
stuff now

1752
01:06:50,470 --> 01:06:49,039
our military that i'm aware of is doing

1753
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:50,480
nothing like that the only thing they're

1754
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:51,200
helping with

1755
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:53,280
is possibly some of the companies or

1756
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:55,680
subcontractors that help with the oil

1757
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:58,880
are also engaged with

1758
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:00,960
for example halliburton is engaged both

1759
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:03,440
ways in military and

1760
01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:06,720
in industry commerce finance energy

1761
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:09,920
and so there's you know a lot of these

1762
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:11,920
larger players are they have their hands

1763
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:14,319
in everything and

1764
01:07:18,549 --> 01:07:17,520
it's it's tough because to the belief

1765
01:07:20,950 --> 01:07:18,559
that there's

1766
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:20,960
like no strange entity in the deserts of

1767
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:23,680
the southwestern united states aka the

1768
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:24,720
shape shifter

1769
01:07:29,430 --> 01:07:27,760
or the skinwalker i mean i i've seen

1770
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:29,440
stuff that tells me that that just

1771
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:37,109
and that's what makes it so you know i

1772
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:38,079
think

1773
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:40,240
it's what makes it so difficult and

1774
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:41,200
muddy and

1775
01:07:44,549 --> 01:07:42,960
it is you know like i was mentioning

1776
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:44,559
before the break it's my understanding

1777
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:45,520
that these

1778
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:48,240
you know these these types of things are

1779
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:49,599
used and as

1780
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,280
they can you know as a psychological

1781
01:07:55,829 --> 01:07:53,599
operation you take some of the common

1782
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:55,839
myths in the in the area and then you

1783
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:58,079
play on those myths and create

1784
01:08:01,510 --> 01:08:00,880
you know uh you know it's it's it's

1785
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:01,520
perfect

1786
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:03,359
we have done it before other countries

1787
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:05,039
have done that before

1788
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:07,359
uh and then you take weapons that you're

1789
01:08:11,029 --> 01:08:08,160
developing

1790
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:11,039
and you know they mimic the paranormal

1791
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:11,280
and

1792
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:14,799
camillio

1793
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:16,239
and some of the very interesting

1794
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:17,839
experiences that

1795
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,440
his friend dion had had with uh relation

1796
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:23,600
to being followed and harassed

1797
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:26,719
by a different uh group and things and

1798
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:28,400
and the technologies the cloaking

1799
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:29,920
technologies

1800
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:33,359
uh the the drone uh technology

1801
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,600
some of these things are just very very

1802
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:37,520
interesting and if people haven't read

1803
01:08:41,349 --> 01:08:39,359
camellia i would highly recommend that

1804
01:08:43,189 --> 01:08:41,359
and i'd also recommend going back and

1805
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:43,199
listening to robert cuffy on

1806
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:45,520
some of my shows because it's absolutely

1807
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:46,560
fascinating and

1808
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:49,199
you know jacques la references uh

1809
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:50,480
camellia

1810
01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:53,040
so what are we developing that have has

1811
01:08:58,870 --> 01:08:55,440
these camellia-like effects and

1812
01:09:00,070 --> 01:08:58,880
is that being tested in the uh basin it

1813
01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:00,080
seems like it and so

1814
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:02,400
your friend who was watching some of

1815
01:09:06,550 --> 01:09:03,440
this stuff taking place

1816
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:06,560
on the ridge do you know or remember

1817
01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:09,839
specifically what he was seeing

1818
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:12,000
oh yeah i can i can get you in contact

1819
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:12,960
with him and

1820
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:15,120
it's it's very interesting because it

1821
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:17,040
just you know he said it just sounded

1822
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:17,520
like

1823
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:25,199
copters were coming down hovering

1824
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:27,440
you know oh i don't know a few feet off

1825
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:28,560
the ground

1826
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:30,560
and these guys were either jumping out

1827
01:09:36,630 --> 01:09:33,199
or getting down on ladders

1828
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:36,640
and rushing into positions and innate

1829
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:45,510
and so what made what

1830
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:48,000
made him think that this wasn't

1831
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:49,199
something from

1832
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:50,960
this wasn't the contractor from the

1833
01:09:57,189 --> 01:09:56,870
he in his words they were all obviously

1834
01:10:04,390 --> 01:09:57,199
in

1835
01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:04,400
and it was obvious who it was and it had

1836
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:05,360
the flag of the

1837
01:10:08,950 --> 01:10:07,600
the country which i don't want to name

1838
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:08,960
but it it was

1839
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:12,960
it was obvious to him okay

1840
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:15,920
and i mean i have to just wonder with

1841
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:17,679
with regard to that wouldn't

1842
01:10:20,790 --> 01:10:20,239
i mean are we willingly letting

1843
01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:20,800
different

1844
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:22,880
countries come here to do that because

1845
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:23,920
it would seem like

1846
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:26,080
if there was something taking place on

1847
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:27,280
our soil

1848
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:28,800
like that that we would have to know

1849
01:10:31,669 --> 01:10:30,480
about it and be involved at least i

1850
01:10:33,510 --> 01:10:31,679
would hope

1851
01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:33,520
well and that comes back to the stuff

1852
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:35,520
we're discussing i mean the only way

1853
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:37,360
that we're going to know about it and be

1854
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:38,000
involved

1855
01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:41,280
is to have quite literally skynet type

1856
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:42,640
technology

1857
01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:46,000
which is going to enable us to

1858
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:48,239
trace for things that are not normally

1859
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,199
checked for on

1860
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:50,800
things like radar and stuff and you hear

1861
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:53,360
this you know this murmuring in in the

1862
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,120
military about this stuff existing and

1863
01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:57,600
oh no that cat that couldn't be real but

1864
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,960
but we're gonna have to develop

1865
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:01,040
something because yeah if if this is

1866
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:02,640
actually taking place it's not a good

1867
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:04,320
thing

1868
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:08,080
wow and and so what other types of

1869
01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:10,960
stories have you heard about people's

1870
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:12,080
encounters

1871
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,560
with the you know quote unquote men in

1872
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:16,640
black or mysterious

1873
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,679
people that's right i kind of i kind of

1874
01:11:24,390 --> 01:11:21,280
left you hanging on that one i'm sorry

1875
01:11:28,070 --> 01:11:24,400
and um

1876
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:28,080
so the the experiences that i'll speak

1877
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:31,600
to uh i'll speak to my own first

1878
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:33,920
which are probably the funniest because

1879
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:35,840
nothing bad came of them

1880
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:38,880
and and the first would be

1881
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:42,159
uh once hanging out at uh

1882
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:44,560
my house dave rosenfeld was there a few

1883
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:46,239
other people were there brian white's

1884
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:47,520
eyes i believe

1885
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:50,320
janice moore there was a crowd of people

1886
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,199
there hanging out on a weekend

1887
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:55,199
and uh you know we were getting ready to

1888
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:56,719
do dinner and stuff and

1889
01:12:01,510 --> 01:11:59,520
and somebody said dude um there's a

1890
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,520
truck at the end of your driveway

1891
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:03,840
and it kind of looks like the mars rover

1892
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:05,840
like it's got so many antennas and stuff

1893
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,560
hanging out of it

1894
01:12:11,830 --> 01:12:10,480
and i was i didn't believe him at first

1895
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:11,840
and sure enough came around the corner

1896
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:12,719
and there it is

1897
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:15,440
so it sat there for about a half an hour

1898
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:17,520
and then i got a call on my phone and i

1899
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:18,560
answered it and it's

1900
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:20,880
this guy and he's like hey i'm sitting

1901
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:22,800
here in your driveway

1902
01:12:26,310 --> 01:12:24,640
and i'm like hi how can i help you and

1903
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,320
he's like well we

1904
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:28,239
we uh we were wondering if you had any

1905
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:29,920
rooms available and i'm like

1906
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,920
um do you need a room and he goes well

1907
01:12:34,709 --> 01:12:33,840
no we don't but we were just wondering

1908
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:34,719
if you did

1909
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:35,920
because we're having some trouble with

1910
01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:38,239
our gear and our other question is it

1911
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:39,600
okay if we park here for

1912
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:43,440
a while and uh i said well if you do

1913
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:44,719
need a room we'll

1914
01:12:48,229 --> 01:12:47,520
we'll make something happen but as far

1915
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:48,239
as

1916
01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:50,080
parking there a while i don't see why

1917
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:52,800
not what are you doing

1918
01:12:58,709 --> 01:12:56,080
you know like what are you doing like

1919
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:58,719
you're in a ridiculous vehicle with tons

1920
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:00,960
of antennas facing every which way

1921
01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:03,040
and he said oh we're just we're just

1922
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:05,120
testing the the cellular

1923
01:13:09,910 --> 01:13:08,880
grid for uh anomalies or disruptions and

1924
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:09,920
we're just trying to make it so

1925
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:11,520
everybody's cell phones work better so

1926
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,280
if you're start acting up

1927
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:16,320
it's probably us and that

1928
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:18,000
that was that i mean you could just

1929
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:19,520
chalk that up to nothing

1930
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:22,000
but you know if you get enough of these

1931
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:22,719
nothings

1932
01:13:27,990 --> 01:13:24,640
over and over again they start to become

1933
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:28,720
absolutely

1934
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:31,520
[Music]

1935
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,679
and what were some other experiences

1936
01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:34,960
because i know you you know you've got

1937
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:35,679
your hands

1938
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:37,360
in you have a lot of friends in the

1939
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:39,440
community and i know over the years

1940
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:41,120
people have come to you with

1941
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,040
with different you know sightings or

1942
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:44,880
different experiences that they've

1943
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:47,920
had with regard to this what

1944
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:54,709
sure one without i don't want to tip my

1945
01:13:59,189 --> 01:13:57,360
hat too much because i definitely

1946
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:59,199
engaged a little bit with this one

1947
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:01,199
because it was a little bit odd

1948
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:04,719
um there was one that the vehicle

1949
01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:06,960
seemed again out of place extremely

1950
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:09,120
tinted and and i'm that guy that doesn't

1951
01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:09,920
want to go down

1952
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:13,280
the you know it's so easy uh like in the

1953
01:14:16,229 --> 01:14:14,960
guffy tale if nobody's read the book

1954
01:14:19,110 --> 01:14:16,239
camillo they have to

1955
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:19,120
but you know these these it's a slippery

1956
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:19,760
slope

1957
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:21,600
and once they've convinced you you've

1958
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:23,840
gone crazy guess what you've gone crazy

1959
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,400
so the

1960
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:26,480
the best way to do that is to just not

1961
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:28,159
let them convince you you've gone crazy

1962
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:31,520
and don't don't get paranoid about stuff

1963
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:32,880
and that that's kind of why i followed

1964
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:34,640
this thing and tried to engage but

1965
01:14:38,149 --> 01:14:37,199
to get back to the story there was a a

1966
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:38,159
suburban

1967
01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:41,679
and it was extremely blacked out had uh

1968
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:43,840
some kind of antenna off the back that

1969
01:14:47,590 --> 01:14:45,600
looked like a satellite tv

1970
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,600
and had a bunch of just straight

1971
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:49,440
antennas like law enforcement or

1972
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:50,880
military off the front

1973
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:54,400
had a push bar had no license plate

1974
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:03,750
windshield was tinted so you could not

1975
01:15:07,270 --> 01:15:04,640
see the driver

1976
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:07,280
because i crept into my driveway as i

1977
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:08,560
usually did and he was parked right in

1978
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:09,679
front

1979
01:15:13,030 --> 01:15:11,920
and right by there and i couldn't see

1980
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:13,040
his face because

1981
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:14,560
you know you just couldn't now i could

1982
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:16,640
tell that he was wearing i went by slow

1983
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:17,760
enough that he was wearing

1984
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:21,280
kind of uh the canvassy uh velcro

1985
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:22,960
attached

1986
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:25,199
patches you know the type of uniform

1987
01:15:30,070 --> 01:15:26,960
that will accept patches

1988
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:30,080
and and but that means nothing

1989
01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:33,199
so anyway i i went home

1990
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,960
quote-unquote tried to act as normal as

1991
01:15:37,990 --> 01:15:36,719
possible going in the house expecting to

1992
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:38,000
be arrested at any moment

1993
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,920
and then i realized this guy's not going

1994
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:41,600
anywhere he's just sitting there

1995
01:15:47,110 --> 01:15:45,280
and i'm like this is weird so i got the

1996
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:47,120
quote-unquote balls to get up and get

1997
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:49,040
out and i'm just gonna drive

1998
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:51,760
up and drive behind him so i got in my

1999
01:15:54,070 --> 01:15:52,800
car

2000
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:54,080
and i started pulling out of the

2001
01:15:57,270 --> 01:15:56,480
driveway and he busted out of there

2002
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:57,280
super quick

2003
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:00,480
so um it was

2004
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,120
weird now he could probably tell that i

2005
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:04,640
was looking at him inside the house and

2006
01:16:07,590 --> 01:16:06,480
i could tell that his car started and i

2007
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,600
could tell that

2008
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,520
his eyes were on me now it could be

2009
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:11,440
anybody this is where it gets so weird

2010
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:12,719
it could be anybody there's lots of

2011
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:14,719
wackos out there so you don't wanna

2012
01:16:19,110 --> 01:16:16,640
but i probably did the worst thing and i

2013
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:19,120
followed and this guy was going

2014
01:16:22,709 --> 01:16:21,199
i mean the fastest speeds i would guess

2015
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:22,719
he was probably going

2016
01:16:30,550 --> 01:16:26,880
over 100 maybe 140 and 130 maybe

2017
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:30,560
and his he ended up in roosevelt at the

2018
01:16:36,149 --> 01:16:34,080
airport and i at that point

2019
01:16:37,990 --> 01:16:36,159
when i saw that from afar i just decided

2020
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:38,000
you know what this is bigger than me

2021
01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:40,080
and i'm not gonna i'm not going to cause

2022
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:41,679
any problem with anybody that has a

2023
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:43,679
plane in my little mind you know

2024
01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:46,400
and that was it for me so i don't know

2025
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:47,920
if there's anything to that or it could

2026
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:49,920
just be a whack job driving crazy

2027
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:53,520
in a cool car wow

2028
01:16:57,350 --> 01:16:55,679
oh that's uh i know and that's the thing

2029
01:16:59,590 --> 01:16:57,360
i mean is there anything to that

2030
01:17:00,790 --> 01:16:59,600
i mean do i know that we can put more

2031
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:00,800
things together than

2032
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:03,360
you know are sometimes in the that

2033
01:17:07,110 --> 01:17:04,000
aren't there

2034
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,120
uh but you know that it is curious and

2035
01:17:11,270 --> 01:17:09,520
it's interesting too because you know

2036
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:11,280
during the time frame

2037
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:13,040
that i believe that happened to you

2038
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:14,560
that's when uh

2039
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:16,800
chris marx and chris bartel were up at

2040
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:19,040
the ranch and working on the ranch and

2041
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:22,640
they were uh influencing me in fact

2042
01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:24,000
there was

2043
01:17:27,350 --> 01:17:26,880
one specific time where where chris was

2044
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:27,360
told

2045
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:30,000
to to monitor you and who was seeing who

2046
01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:31,360
was coming and going and different

2047
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:32,320
things but

2048
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:35,520
he wasn't in a black suburban

2049
01:17:41,189 --> 01:17:38,640
so very interesting it's

2050
01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:41,199
yeah and other people have mentioned you

2051
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:41,760
know the

2052
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:44,239
black vehicles in the in the area as

2053
01:17:47,669 --> 01:17:45,360
well and

2054
01:17:49,350 --> 01:17:47,679
and things and and with regard to you

2055
01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:49,360
know the airport

2056
01:17:54,310 --> 01:17:52,560
you had mentioned the other day at how

2057
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:54,320
there seemed to be some interesting

2058
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:56,159
comings and goings in and out of the

2059
01:18:01,270 --> 01:17:57,440
roosevelt airport

2060
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:01,280
i wonder if that's still taking place

2061
01:18:04,630 --> 01:18:03,600
that i have no idea to that i can't

2062
01:18:08,149 --> 01:18:04,640
speak to that

2063
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:08,159
but i do know that they just released

2064
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:09,040
some lots of

2065
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:10,560
around there and i thought that was

2066
01:18:15,910 --> 01:18:12,560
interesting so they're expecting more

2067
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:15,920
uh more more obviously with commerce

2068
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:17,760
they must be expecting more people to be

2069
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:19,600
moving in and out and put

2070
01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:22,640
and put their own things up close by so

2071
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:24,800
that's cool but i don't know back then i

2072
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:26,000
really don't know and

2073
01:18:29,189 --> 01:18:28,480
still i'm i'm not there enough to

2074
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:29,199
honestly

2075
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:33,120
say that i i keep an eye on it

2076
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,840
how interesting well it'll be yeah that

2077
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:37,440
would be an interesting place to watch

2078
01:18:41,430 --> 01:18:38,400
for

2079
01:18:42,630 --> 01:18:41,440
the uh there is

2080
01:18:44,550 --> 01:18:42,640
a lot there are a lot of other things

2081
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:44,560
taking place there and with the

2082
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:46,960
the railway uh project and things i'm

2083
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:47,760
sure

2084
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:50,239
activity will increase as you mentioned

2085
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,199
in a lot of ways and so

2086
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:55,440
when when you started you know snooping

2087
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:57,040
around obviously you caught

2088
01:19:00,870 --> 01:19:00,239
the eye of bigelow um who do you

2089
01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,880
remember

2090
01:19:03,990 --> 01:19:02,800
during that time frame like who kind of

2091
01:19:07,110 --> 01:19:04,000
came out of

2092
01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:07,120
the woodwork and and befriended you like

2093
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:09,280
you know i mean the the russian fellow

2094
01:19:13,510 --> 01:19:10,560
eventually

2095
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:13,520
did were there other people that that

2096
01:19:19,669 --> 01:19:16,159
did the same thing

2097
01:19:23,110 --> 01:19:19,679
um not not initially not initially

2098
01:19:25,430 --> 01:19:23,120
i just kind of did my own thing and um

2099
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:25,440
i of course got in contact with ryan

2100
01:19:29,669 --> 01:19:26,560
skinner

2101
01:19:31,270 --> 01:19:29,679
and uh yeah we were interested in a lot

2102
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:31,280
of the same things

2103
01:19:36,870 --> 01:19:34,400
and we encountered a lot of things that

2104
01:19:37,990 --> 01:19:36,880
seemed to be out of place over the years

2105
01:19:40,950 --> 01:19:38,000
and

2106
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:40,960
could be you know regarded as

2107
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:42,239
supernatural

2108
01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:46,000
or out of this world experiences

2109
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:50,800
so yeah i i got some contacts online and

2110
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:54,560
i remember asking other people a lot of

2111
01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:55,280
questions

2112
01:19:59,990 --> 01:19:57,760
and that's just kind of where it went

2113
01:20:01,830 --> 01:20:00,000
and it doesn't take much digging around

2114
01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,840
you don't have to be an amazing hunting

2115
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:03,840
dog to sniff out

2116
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:07,280
that something is odd and in in the you

2117
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:08,400
in a basin

2118
01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:11,199
and so it's not that i'm some amazing

2119
01:20:16,709 --> 01:20:13,600
investigator or that anybody

2120
01:20:17,430 --> 01:20:16,719
really can be when it's this blatant in

2121
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:17,440
my opinion

2122
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:19,040
it's it's not a matter of if you're

2123
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:20,639
going to see something it's a matter of

2124
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:23,810
when in the skies

2125
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:25,040
[Music]

2126
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:28,080
and and what types of sightings are

2127
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:30,800
you hearing about now have you talked to

2128
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:36,709
yes there's been a lot of sightings that

2129
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:37,840
are similar

2130
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:40,560
reminiscent to starlink like the strings

2131
01:20:43,669 --> 01:20:42,320
of lights but some of them seem lower

2132
01:20:47,590 --> 01:20:43,679
than they should be

2133
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:47,600
and videos of stuff like that um

2134
01:20:50,870 --> 01:20:50,080
low-flying aircraft that appear to not

2135
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:50,880
have

2136
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:55,040
uh any any flashing lights at all

2137
01:21:00,149 --> 01:20:57,920
and and then some that are not quite

2138
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:00,159
silent but close to silent

2139
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:02,400
uh but it's strange because it seems

2140
01:21:05,830 --> 01:21:03,360
very cyclical

2141
01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:05,840
the craft that get reported you know

2142
01:21:10,070 --> 01:21:06,480
you'll get

2143
01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:10,080
get the same report like seven years

2144
01:21:12,550 --> 01:21:10,800
later

2145
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:12,560
you know like this flurry of the same

2146
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:14,400
things and it's i don't know if

2147
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:16,880
it's just a cyclical nature of the

2148
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:18,960
tapestry of reality or it's

2149
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:25,430
do you have you heard of i mean is

2150
01:21:30,310 --> 01:21:26,840
anybody reporting any

2151
01:21:34,229 --> 01:21:30,320
abduction stuff

2152
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:34,239
in that area now interestingly enough

2153
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:35,679
due to covid

2154
01:21:40,310 --> 01:21:39,120
and some of these things taking place

2155
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:40,320
a lot of people are having their

2156
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:43,760
temperature taken as you go into places

2157
01:21:50,870 --> 01:21:47,760
and one of the critical areas

2158
01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:50,880
that is looked at with abductions as

2159
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:51,760
i've looked in

2160
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:53,520
over the years is that your temperature

2161
01:21:59,590 --> 01:21:56,880
goes way down like 93s right 94's

2162
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:59,600
and um there's been a multitude of

2163
01:22:04,229 --> 01:22:00,800
individuals

2164
01:22:06,149 --> 01:22:04,239
and i mean a lot in utah

2165
01:22:08,229 --> 01:22:06,159
and here in vegas as well that are

2166
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:08,239
reporting super low temperatures i'm one

2167
01:22:12,070 --> 01:22:09,199
of them but

2168
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:12,080
there's tons like i'm not it's in utah i

2169
01:22:16,629 --> 01:22:12,639
think there's

2170
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:16,639
there's more even and that's interesting

2171
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:19,440
i mean i have i in the same way and i

2172
01:22:24,629 --> 01:22:21,280
but then i have a thyroid

2173
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:24,639
issue and so who knows what

2174
01:22:29,910 --> 01:22:27,679
what that's about do you i mean with

2175
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:29,920
with regard to and i want to go back and

2176
01:22:33,750 --> 01:22:31,760
i'm sorry i'm jumping around here but

2177
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:33,760
i want to go back to kind of a time

2178
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:35,040
frame when

2179
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:37,040
you know the sermons were at the ranch

2180
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:38,639
and i had heard

2181
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,199
the fact the last time i met with with

2182
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:43,199
junior hicks

2183
01:22:50,310 --> 01:22:46,560
he had told me that mrs sherman

2184
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:50,320
was fired the bigelow robert bigelow

2185
01:22:57,189 --> 01:22:54,159
had mrs sherman fired from the bank

2186
01:22:57,910 --> 01:22:57,199
and was trying to get terry sherman to

2187
01:23:00,550 --> 01:22:57,920
kind of put the

2188
01:23:01,270 --> 01:23:00,560
could put the stranglehold on him so he

2189
01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:01,280
would stay

2190
01:23:05,590 --> 01:23:04,159
at the property have you ever heard

2191
01:23:09,350 --> 01:23:05,600
anything

2192
01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:09,360
like that i never

2193
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:12,239
have and it just sounds very out of

2194
01:23:15,590 --> 01:23:13,199
character

2195
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:15,600
for robert bigelow because he does seem

2196
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:17,679
very benevolent at least

2197
01:23:21,189 --> 01:23:20,159
in his way the way he treats employees

2198
01:23:24,229 --> 01:23:21,199
here in vegas

2199
01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:24,239
and the way he treats uh i don't know

2200
01:23:28,149 --> 01:23:26,639
i don't i haven't met the man i haven't

2201
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:28,159
engaged with the man

2202
01:23:31,669 --> 01:23:30,800
but from my understanding of people that

2203
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:31,679
have

2204
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:34,960
he is not the type to really cause

2205
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:41,830
interesting yeah i just i found that

2206
01:23:45,830 --> 01:23:44,480
very peculiar that you know junior

2207
01:23:47,350 --> 01:23:45,840
had mentioned that and i think that was

2208
01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:47,360
actually the second time they'd

2209
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:48,800
mentioned it when i was meeting

2210
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:50,639
with with him and so it sounds like

2211
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,320
there was a little bit a little bit of

2212
01:23:57,030 --> 01:23:54,320
something extra on the side

2213
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:57,040
going on there with with regard to that

2214
01:24:01,110 --> 01:23:58,000
um

2215
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:01,120
and what do you i mean

2216
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:02,880
what are your thoughts because i know

2217
01:24:06,950 --> 01:24:04,320
that you know junior was

2218
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:06,960
also very important in your world and

2219
01:24:13,510 --> 01:24:08,480
what are some of your

2220
01:24:16,629 --> 01:24:15,669
other than just wanting to be just like

2221
01:24:19,270 --> 01:24:16,639
him he

2222
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:19,280
is such an awesome and amazing person

2223
01:24:23,669 --> 01:24:20,320
and

2224
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:23,679
he uh i think that he was very diligent

2225
01:24:28,790 --> 01:24:26,719
and what he did and what i appreciated

2226
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:28,800
the most out of junior

2227
01:24:34,470 --> 01:24:32,400
is that he really delved into how

2228
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:34,480
these things made people feel especially

2229
01:24:38,629 --> 01:24:36,639
when they were telling him a story so

2230
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:38,639
he maybe it was the teacher in him that

2231
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:39,760
actually cared

2232
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:41,600
but he he did actually care and you

2233
01:24:48,070 --> 01:24:45,600
could tell that just engaging with him

2234
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:48,080
he was such a lovely man i just thought

2235
01:24:50,790 --> 01:24:49,120
yeah right so

2236
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:50,800
so grateful that he was in my life for

2237
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:52,719
the small portion

2238
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:54,719
uh that he was i was also excited that

2239
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:56,080
you know i had the opportunity to talk

2240
01:24:59,189 --> 01:24:56,400
to

2241
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:59,199
dr frank salisbury who is another

2242
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:00,080
enigmatic

2243
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:03,280
uh figure in all of this and and he uh

2244
01:25:05,669 --> 01:25:04,800
just to let people know that haven't

2245
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:05,679
heard

2246
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,159
about either these two gentleman's names

2247
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,080
uh frank salisbury

2248
01:25:13,270 --> 01:25:12,239
wrote the utah ufo display and that was

2249
01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,280
based on

2250
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,120
the reports that junior hicks had

2251
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:17,679
collected over years and so that's

2252
01:25:20,709 --> 01:25:20,080
well you know must read in in that

2253
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:20,719
regard

2254
01:25:26,149 --> 01:25:24,239
and and so you know where

2255
01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:26,159
i mean what tell us a little bit more

2256
01:25:29,910 --> 01:25:27,440
because i just you've had so many

2257
01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:29,920
fascinating experiences but some of the

2258
01:25:33,669 --> 01:25:32,400
the sightings that you have had and the

2259
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:33,679
specific

2260
01:25:40,470 --> 01:25:37,199
um effects that you experienced i mean

2261
01:25:42,470 --> 01:25:40,480
or were there any yeah

2262
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:42,480
and just quickly to interject about

2263
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:44,400
frank uh dr salisbury

2264
01:25:48,550 --> 01:25:45,760
it's such a it's such a funny

2265
01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:48,560
coincidental and synchronistic

2266
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:51,360
um history i you know he was such a hero

2267
01:25:55,510 --> 01:25:53,440
of mine and i was trying to figure out

2268
01:25:57,990 --> 01:25:55,520
how i could ever talk to them

2269
01:25:59,669 --> 01:25:58,000
and him and and talk to talk to him and

2270
01:26:03,189 --> 01:25:59,679
talk to him about his work and

2271
01:26:06,470 --> 01:26:03,199
all of his experiences and cases and

2272
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:06,480
i had to wait until he came

2273
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:10,080
up to the uintah basin to talk to me

2274
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:12,960
and what's so funny is i had just rented

2275
01:26:17,270 --> 01:26:14,800
my house in utah which

2276
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:17,280
coincidentally was just down the street

2277
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:18,000
from him

2278
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:20,320
literally we lived on the same street

2279
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,000
and that's how these things are but

2280
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:25,679
okay to go back to what you were saying

2281
01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:28,719
um some of the strangest events of my

2282
01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:29,760
personal sightings

2283
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:32,320
my favorite uh i'll just kind of go

2284
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:33,760
through the like little top 10 or

2285
01:26:37,830 --> 01:26:34,800
whatever

2286
01:26:39,030 --> 01:26:37,840
uh greatest hits i guess uh one of my

2287
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:39,040
favorites was

2288
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:42,560
i came out of the back porch

2289
01:26:46,149 --> 01:26:44,000
at the strawberry river bed and

2290
01:26:47,350 --> 01:26:46,159
breakfast and i actually had my mom and

2291
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:47,360
my dad up

2292
01:26:53,350 --> 01:26:50,719
uh for a weekend and at the time i was

2293
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:53,360
kind of a smoker i smoked cigarettes

2294
01:26:58,229 --> 01:26:54,800
kind of like a lot

2295
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:58,239
and so i had been hiding it all day and

2296
01:27:02,229 --> 01:26:59,760
come night time i

2297
01:27:03,270 --> 01:27:02,239
jumped out back and i was lighting up a

2298
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:03,280
cigarette

2299
01:27:13,110 --> 01:27:11,430
gosh it looked a lot like a cyber truck

2300
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:13,120
without wheels now

2301
01:27:18,550 --> 01:27:16,560
um you know those weird angular

2302
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:18,560
stainless steel kind of kind of that

2303
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:20,880
look and it had

2304
01:27:25,270 --> 01:27:22,880
a single light on the front and it had

2305
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:25,280
like a led light on the back that looked

2306
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,199
like it was out of a really cheap honda

2307
01:27:32,229 --> 01:27:29,280
or something a really big long one

2308
01:27:32,870 --> 01:27:32,239
and you know like with the fuzzy dice in

2309
01:27:35,430 --> 01:27:32,880
the mirror

2310
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:35,440
and it it looked like a spaceship this

2311
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:36,960
thing and i thought for sure it was a

2312
01:27:40,229 --> 01:27:37,440
car

2313
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:40,239
up on the ridge behind me well i kept

2314
01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:42,400
watching it it was definitely

2315
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:44,960
on my property and i was like well he's

2316
01:27:48,070 --> 01:27:46,080
i'm not going to go up there

2317
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:48,080
i'm not doing anything you know i'm not

2318
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:49,760
going to go up there and engage

2319
01:27:55,030 --> 01:27:52,960
it's screw it and i just watched it

2320
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:55,040
and it eventually just kind of popped

2321
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:56,320
off the hill

2322
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:58,560
and there was no road there there was no

2323
01:28:02,629 --> 01:27:59,760
ground there there was

2324
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:02,639
nothing there but air and it popped off

2325
01:28:06,070 --> 01:28:03,840
the hill

2326
01:28:06,870 --> 01:28:06,080
and it sort of dropped down a little bit

2327
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:06,880
over this

2328
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:09,920
other subdivision to the left of me

2329
01:28:14,229 --> 01:28:12,960
uh to the east and continued east kind

2330
01:28:17,430 --> 01:28:14,239
of towards vernal

2331
01:28:19,030 --> 01:28:17,440
and that was a really cool one and um

2332
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:19,040
there's been there's been a few others

2333
01:28:21,830 --> 01:28:20,800
there's but yeah

2334
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:21,840
is that kind of what you were looking

2335
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:24,320
for were you looking for something else

2336
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:27,840
no no i mean that that that's perfect i

2337
01:28:33,510 --> 01:28:29,920
love that and and if you have more that

2338
01:28:39,910 --> 01:28:37,669
um sure uh one

2339
01:28:41,110 --> 01:28:39,920
and these aren't all craft because some

2340
01:28:42,550 --> 01:28:41,120
of these things

2341
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:42,560
you just don't know what they are it

2342
01:28:47,910 --> 01:28:44,800
just looks like energy in the sky

2343
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:47,920
is really what it looks like and

2344
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,480
um you know even if you're able to catch

2345
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:52,320
this stuff on video

2346
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:55,199
it can be easily discounted with uh you

2347
01:28:59,590 --> 01:28:57,199
know film anomalies or

2348
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:59,600
or the reflection of some light source

2349
01:29:02,790 --> 01:29:00,560
or

2350
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:02,800
there's plenty of ways to debunk just

2351
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:05,040
about anything if you want to

2352
01:29:12,390 --> 01:29:08,880
so the the consideration

2353
01:29:14,229 --> 01:29:12,400
and priority that i've taken to

2354
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:14,239
get everything on film has kind of

2355
01:29:18,709 --> 01:29:16,159
dropped down to a minimum because

2356
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:18,719
it really doesn't matter and i remember

2357
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:19,679
back in the day

2358
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:22,000
talking to older researchers than myself

2359
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:23,520
who who would watch

2360
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,560
these um anomalous events with me on

2361
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:28,480
location and they just sit there and

2362
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:29,920
take it in and do nothing and i was

2363
01:29:33,270 --> 01:29:31,920
scrambling about trying to do tripods

2364
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:33,280
and cameras and

2365
01:29:36,390 --> 01:29:34,639
you know i just kind of learned over the

2366
01:29:38,229 --> 01:29:36,400
years that yeah just just

2367
01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:38,239
watch what's happening you know take

2368
01:29:47,350 --> 01:29:45,430
absolutely i know it's it's difficult

2369
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:47,360
because you just are never

2370
01:29:51,189 --> 01:29:48,880
i don't know you get out there and you

2371
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:51,199
it's you're fussing around with so much

2372
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:52,480
do you want to just take it in or do you

2373
01:29:56,629 --> 01:29:53,600
want to

2374
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:56,639
you know it's hard but um

2375
01:30:00,149 --> 01:29:57,920
over the years you have definitely

2376
01:30:02,310 --> 01:30:00,159
caught some very interesting things

2377
01:30:04,870 --> 01:30:02,320
i will say and i wanted you know talk to

2378
01:30:07,830 --> 01:30:04,880
you a little bit about the portal

2379
01:30:09,430 --> 01:30:07,840
stuff because a couple years back uh you

2380
01:30:12,470 --> 01:30:09,440
know ron pandolfie

2381
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:12,480
was very much into you know we heard

2382
01:30:16,229 --> 01:30:13,120
about the

2383
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:16,239
portals with regard to his his wife and

2384
01:30:19,030 --> 01:30:17,760
different things and then the portal

2385
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:19,040
technology

2386
01:30:22,390 --> 01:30:21,840
uh you know firmage was in there in the

2387
01:30:25,669 --> 01:30:22,400
mix

2388
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:25,679
do you do you know anything about

2389
01:30:32,310 --> 01:30:29,040
uh that and would you could you comment

2390
01:30:38,870 --> 01:30:36,229
what i can comment is that i

2391
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:38,880
have never received as much pushback

2392
01:30:43,590 --> 01:30:40,880
from any video

2393
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:43,600
um no to any of the players that you

2394
01:30:47,189 --> 01:30:44,880
mentioned however

2395
01:30:48,149 --> 01:30:47,199
i've never received as much pushback to

2396
01:30:52,149 --> 01:30:48,159
any video

2397
01:30:55,590 --> 01:30:52,159
as the portal video that i that i posted

2398
01:30:57,510 --> 01:30:55,600
and uh it apparently has lights going in

2399
01:31:00,629 --> 01:30:57,520
and out of it i was with my best friend

2400
01:31:02,470 --> 01:31:00,639
will hoffman who's a baptist pastor

2401
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:02,480
and not one to lie he was right there

2402
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:05,760
and i mean what in the world it is

2403
01:31:09,750 --> 01:31:08,639
is kind of i we i don't know and i don't

2404
01:31:11,430 --> 01:31:09,760
claim to know and

2405
01:31:13,270 --> 01:31:11,440
it didn't look much different than the

2406
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,280
video i actually was you know the

2407
01:31:18,229 --> 01:31:15,360
technology was crappier than

2408
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:18,239
but it was the best at the time and i

2409
01:31:21,590 --> 01:31:19,840
got a lot of pushback on that video and

2410
01:31:22,310 --> 01:31:21,600
i don't know if it would have been

2411
01:31:25,350 --> 01:31:22,320
because

2412
01:31:28,149 --> 01:31:25,360
of um somebody not liking what they saw

2413
01:31:30,149 --> 01:31:28,159
i don't know but it was an area that was

2414
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:30,159
in the uintah basin and

2415
01:31:35,669 --> 01:31:33,760
um yeah very very intriguing uh i don't

2416
01:31:37,430 --> 01:31:35,679
know anything about the

2417
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:37,440
i've only heard rumors probably the same

2418
01:31:41,990 --> 01:31:38,960
rumors that you have about

2419
01:31:43,669 --> 01:31:42,000
anything like that okay

2420
01:31:45,189 --> 01:31:43,679
so when you you say that you got

2421
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:45,199
pushback what

2422
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:51,750
i i can't go into that but it was not

2423
01:31:57,350 --> 01:31:54,560
good pushback

2424
01:31:59,270 --> 01:31:57,360
okay wait i mean and i'm not to pray

2425
01:32:02,950 --> 01:31:59,280
either but was it it was

2426
01:32:08,470 --> 01:32:02,960
an in-person thing or an online

2427
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:10,950
typically the way these things work is

2428
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:12,719
through plausible deniability and you

2429
01:32:15,830 --> 01:32:13,199
have

2430
01:32:17,030 --> 01:32:15,840
uh threats made through characters that

2431
01:32:20,550 --> 01:32:17,040
are not

2432
01:32:22,870 --> 01:32:20,560
the person that

2433
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:22,880
actually is making the bidding but in my

2434
01:32:25,990 --> 01:32:24,320
opinion i don't know what it was but i

2435
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:26,000
just got a lot of pushback and that

2436
01:32:29,430 --> 01:32:28,159
that getting pushback on that particular

2437
01:32:33,270 --> 01:32:29,440
video which is such an

2438
01:32:36,310 --> 01:32:33,280
old video i think it dates back to 2012

2439
01:32:38,830 --> 01:32:36,320
and it's just very odd to get pushback

2440
01:32:40,470 --> 01:32:38,840
throughout the years on such an old

2441
01:32:41,910 --> 01:32:40,480
video

2442
01:32:43,669 --> 01:32:41,920
and and that is interesting that would

2443
01:32:44,390 --> 01:32:43,679
have been around the time that you know

2444
01:32:47,590 --> 01:32:44,400
uh

2445
01:32:51,110 --> 01:32:47,600
and

2446
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:51,120
know junior had talked

2447
01:32:55,430 --> 01:32:53,520
a little bit about uh you know having

2448
01:32:57,270 --> 01:32:55,440
that type scene that type of thing

2449
01:33:00,390 --> 01:32:57,280
where the sky almost looks like it it's

2450
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,400
opening up in specific places and

2451
01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:02,639
and and yeah and the pushback is

2452
01:33:06,310 --> 01:33:03,840
interesting

2453
01:33:07,510 --> 01:33:06,320
for sure and did you ever and i've got

2454
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:07,520
two over

2455
01:33:10,629 --> 01:33:08,880
i'm thinking about this you know joe

2456
01:33:13,669 --> 01:33:10,639
firmage is a big you know

2457
01:33:17,030 --> 01:33:13,679
uh person in utah his family's

2458
01:33:20,550 --> 01:33:17,040
very prominent and he was for

2459
01:33:22,390 --> 01:33:20,560
a lot of years very genuinely interested

2460
01:33:23,430 --> 01:33:22,400
and probably still is about the subject

2461
01:33:26,550 --> 01:33:23,440
and donated

2462
01:33:29,110 --> 01:33:26,560
a considerable amount of money to

2463
01:33:30,310 --> 01:33:29,120
research and there there are some you

2464
01:33:32,070 --> 01:33:30,320
know you hear

2465
01:33:34,149 --> 01:33:32,080
things through the rumor mill over the

2466
01:33:36,950 --> 01:33:34,159
years and i mean there's no doubt

2467
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:36,960
that he was a brilliant is a brilliant

2468
01:33:40,709 --> 01:33:38,000
man

2469
01:33:42,070 --> 01:33:40,719
and and things and i mean what have you

2470
01:33:44,950 --> 01:33:42,080
have you ever had any

2471
01:33:46,870 --> 01:33:44,960
contact with him and what are your

2472
01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:46,880
thoughts on how he has

2473
01:33:53,030 --> 01:33:50,719
played into some of this um i think he's

2474
01:33:54,390 --> 01:33:53,040
a brilliant brilliant individual from my

2475
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:54,400
understanding

2476
01:34:01,350 --> 01:33:57,440
and i believe that

2477
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:01,360
with these areas of interest

2478
01:34:06,390 --> 01:34:04,639
sometimes um you know it

2479
01:34:08,550 --> 01:34:06,400
it's stuff that can affect you in real

2480
01:34:10,470 --> 01:34:08,560
life and i know that people

2481
01:34:12,470 --> 01:34:10,480
joke about the hitchhikers in the uinta

2482
01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:12,480
base and that but this is stuff that can

2483
01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:13,040
affect you

2484
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:15,040
in real life or else this would not be

2485
01:34:20,149 --> 01:34:17,120
in native american lore

2486
01:34:23,030 --> 01:34:20,159
and some of these other uh traditions

2487
01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:23,040
but yeah where where it comes to joe

2488
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:24,800
firmage i've never met the man

2489
01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:26,320
i don't know i've never discussed

2490
01:34:28,470 --> 01:34:27,920
anything with him so i really can't

2491
01:34:33,350 --> 01:34:28,480
speak

2492
01:34:35,350 --> 01:34:33,360
to anything that along those lines

2493
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:35,360
well he's you know it's it is

2494
01:34:39,189 --> 01:34:36,400
interesting like i was saying

2495
01:34:41,109 --> 01:34:39,199
you know you you hear things in the ufo

2496
01:34:42,709 --> 01:34:41,119
world over the years and then

2497
01:34:44,149 --> 01:34:42,719
and then you know you make a decision

2498
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:44,159
based on that and then

2499
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,040
you learn more and and your ideas and

2500
01:34:51,669 --> 01:34:48,960
thoughts change on that but there

2501
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:51,679
there is is no doubt that he really uh

2502
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,040
heavily funded

2503
01:34:57,430 --> 01:34:55,440
uh a few people in the field uh much

2504
01:35:00,070 --> 01:34:57,440
like you know bigelow has done

2505
01:35:02,229 --> 01:35:00,080
over the years and and so it's and with

2506
01:35:04,390 --> 01:35:02,239
the utah connection it is

2507
01:35:05,430 --> 01:35:04,400
quite curious and and i hope that i get

2508
01:35:07,750 --> 01:35:05,440
the opportunity to

2509
01:35:08,709 --> 01:35:07,760
to speak with him someday but it is

2510
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:08,719
funny to see how

2511
01:35:14,310 --> 01:35:12,480
some of these people involved or are um

2512
01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:14,320
you know moving around and how they've

2513
01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:16,400
been involved for decades and been

2514
01:35:21,109 --> 01:35:18,560
involved with some very interesting

2515
01:35:22,470 --> 01:35:21,119
projects as contractors and i want to go

2516
01:35:24,390 --> 01:35:22,480
back because i'm just looking at my

2517
01:35:26,709 --> 01:35:24,400
notes what i've taken from

2518
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:26,719
from the uh from our interview today and

2519
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:28,880
you mentioned defcon

2520
01:35:32,149 --> 01:35:30,560
and i know that that's usually held in

2521
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:32,159
las vegas right

2522
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:33,920
have you ever you kind of dropped off a

2523
01:35:35,990 --> 01:35:35,440
little bit have you ever have you ever

2524
01:35:39,430 --> 01:35:36,000
been to

2525
01:35:41,669 --> 01:35:39,440
a conference to deathcom

2526
01:35:43,109 --> 01:35:41,679
no no that's what i said is i've never

2527
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:43,119
been to defcon

2528
01:35:47,030 --> 01:35:46,480
i would love to but um no i think that

2529
01:35:51,109 --> 01:35:47,040
you know

2530
01:35:52,629 --> 01:35:51,119
um it's a lot like a ces of

2531
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:52,639
if people are familiar with that but

2532
01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:54,719
it's more of the military industrial

2533
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:55,520
complex

2534
01:36:03,109 --> 01:35:59,840
which at this point is a behemoth that

2535
01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:03,119
is got some pretty cool technology and

2536
01:36:08,870 --> 01:36:06,480
with good reason a lot of it is

2537
01:36:10,550 --> 01:36:08,880
shying away from using anything that is

2538
01:36:13,109 --> 01:36:10,560
non-domestic and i think

2539
01:36:15,669 --> 01:36:13,119
that's because of a lot of spying as

2540
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:15,679
we've seen taking place over the years

2541
01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:18,400
and they're i say they but it's very

2542
01:36:21,990 --> 01:36:19,920
easy to

2543
01:36:23,669 --> 01:36:22,000
spy on a population that you sell goods

2544
01:36:27,990 --> 01:36:23,679
and services to and they rely on it

2545
01:36:31,109 --> 01:36:30,390
and then if that that really that is an

2546
01:36:32,310 --> 01:36:31,119
interesting

2547
01:36:34,149 --> 01:36:32,320
you know point and i know that's

2548
01:36:36,870 --> 01:36:34,159
something that i've haven't really

2549
01:36:38,229 --> 01:36:36,880
thought about too much before now but

2550
01:36:41,430 --> 01:36:38,239
then how you know i mean

2551
01:36:41,830 --> 01:36:41,440
that are there are we doing the same

2552
01:36:45,510 --> 01:36:41,840
thing

2553
01:36:48,629 --> 01:36:45,520
you know to our own citizens who knows

2554
01:36:49,109 --> 01:36:48,639
with the you know we with what snowden

2555
01:36:51,590 --> 01:36:49,119
uh

2556
01:36:54,149 --> 01:36:51,600
approached with with all of the what the

2557
01:36:56,310 --> 01:36:54,159
nsa was doing and different things and

2558
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:56,320
data collection and we know that utah is

2559
01:37:00,149 --> 01:36:57,360
definitely

2560
01:37:01,990 --> 01:37:00,159
home home for that and and things but

2561
01:37:02,709 --> 01:37:02,000
it's it's all curious and i think that

2562
01:37:04,470 --> 01:37:02,719
defcon

2563
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:04,480
i mean from my understanding is kind of

2564
01:37:08,230 --> 01:37:06,000
a recruiting ground

2565
01:37:09,910 --> 01:37:08,240
for the intelligence agencies

2566
01:37:11,510 --> 01:37:09,920
[Music]

2567
01:37:12,950 --> 01:37:11,520
yeah i've never gone to one of those

2568
01:37:15,669 --> 01:37:12,960
conferences and

2569
01:37:16,310 --> 01:37:15,679
all i've seen is stuff online and it

2570
01:37:20,629 --> 01:37:16,320
looks like

2571
01:37:22,870 --> 01:37:20,639
you can get at ces you can get one at

2572
01:37:25,669 --> 01:37:22,880
defcon that will you know take that

2573
01:37:26,229 --> 01:37:25,679
that out so it's kind of cool i think

2574
01:37:29,350 --> 01:37:26,239
that would be

2575
01:37:30,550 --> 01:37:29,360
so fascinating to go i um have

2576
01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:30,560
interviewed richard theme

2577
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:33,199
who speaks at devcom most years i think

2578
01:37:36,229 --> 01:37:35,520
and it's he's a very interesting fellow

2579
01:37:40,470 --> 01:37:36,239
and

2580
01:37:43,189 --> 01:37:40,480
have the opportunity

2581
01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:43,199
to to watch uh his video where he

2582
01:37:47,990 --> 01:37:45,280
discusses dr kit green

2583
01:37:48,790 --> 01:37:48,000
uh it that again is fascinating and it's

2584
01:37:52,390 --> 01:37:48,800
all connected

2585
01:37:54,550 --> 01:37:52,400
and and you wonder what that's about but

2586
01:37:55,510 --> 01:37:54,560
um what i have to ask you you know

2587
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:55,520
because you've

2588
01:37:59,189 --> 01:37:58,080
when you and i both got into this we

2589
01:38:03,030 --> 01:37:59,199
were so

2590
01:38:04,870 --> 01:38:03,040
bright item and bushy-tailed and we

2591
01:38:06,629 --> 01:38:04,880
you know at least for me i thought that

2592
01:38:08,709 --> 01:38:06,639
this i didn't

2593
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:08,719
think that things were going to go where

2594
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:10,000
they've gone

2595
01:38:13,430 --> 01:38:11,920
for me and i would make the discoveries

2596
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:13,440
that i have

2597
01:38:18,629 --> 01:38:15,440
over the years what are some of the

2598
01:38:21,590 --> 01:38:18,639
things that that you saw that maybe

2599
01:38:24,189 --> 01:38:21,600
either you know inspired you or took the

2600
01:38:26,629 --> 01:38:24,199
wind out of your sails and made you

2601
01:38:28,870 --> 01:38:26,639
re-frame the things that you were

2602
01:38:30,709 --> 01:38:28,880
presented with

2603
01:38:32,470 --> 01:38:30,719
such a good question erica because it's

2604
01:38:36,310 --> 01:38:32,480
so true you get jaded

2605
01:38:38,070 --> 01:38:36,320
and you you it it it i'm not bright-eyed

2606
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:38,080
and bushy-tailed anymore

2607
01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:41,920
it's um it's it's true

2608
01:38:46,070 --> 01:38:44,800
uh you find out that these things are

2609
01:38:49,990 --> 01:38:46,080
taking place

2610
01:38:52,790 --> 01:38:50,000
that um that you know there's a reason

2611
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:52,800
people that are just idiots can't fly

2612
01:38:56,470 --> 01:38:53,440
drones

2613
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:56,480
in specific areas because

2614
01:39:02,950 --> 01:39:00,000
you know uh these drones may have

2615
01:39:04,790 --> 01:39:02,960
chinese will usually 99 of the time have

2616
01:39:07,510 --> 01:39:04,800
chinese technology

2617
01:39:08,629 --> 01:39:07,520
in them namely dgi and everything else

2618
01:39:13,189 --> 01:39:08,639
you can buy

2619
01:39:15,030 --> 01:39:13,199
and at this point and uh the sad part is

2620
01:39:16,390 --> 01:39:15,040
this is changing and will change very

2621
01:39:19,270 --> 01:39:16,400
quickly uh

2622
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:19,280
this year but there's a lot of stuff

2623
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:20,960
that's happening and

2624
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:22,400
people don't understand the reasoning

2625
01:39:26,070 --> 01:39:24,320
behind it so yeah we have all kinds of

2626
01:39:27,510 --> 01:39:26,080
drones and stuff we buy for our kids

2627
01:39:29,350 --> 01:39:27,520
for christmas which is coming up which

2628
01:39:30,629 --> 01:39:29,360
is super but these things are spying on

2629
01:39:31,750 --> 01:39:30,639
us and we don't even know it and they're

2630
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:31,760
doing so

2631
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:34,800
through our internet through our modems

2632
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:36,480
and this isn't even going to our

2633
01:39:39,109 --> 01:39:38,159
government this is going to another

2634
01:39:41,350 --> 01:39:39,119
government

2635
01:39:43,510 --> 01:39:41,360
let's just put that into perspective so

2636
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:43,520
you can imagine that the recourse

2637
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:46,960
at uh trying to get this this appendage

2638
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:48,080
to stop bleeding

2639
01:39:56,149 --> 01:39:54,149
wow that's yeah those definitely gives

2640
01:39:59,189 --> 01:39:56,159
you positive thought i have

2641
01:39:59,669 --> 01:39:59,199
mentioned uh a book that i have been

2642
01:40:02,310 --> 01:39:59,679
reading

2643
01:40:03,189 --> 01:40:02,320
which is uh at the surveillance

2644
01:40:05,189 --> 01:40:03,199
capitalism

2645
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:05,199
and it's about you know different

2646
01:40:08,229 --> 01:40:06,239
companies and how

2647
01:40:09,910 --> 01:40:08,239
you know you have a nest in your home

2648
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:09,920
and how you don't realize when you're

2649
01:40:14,629 --> 01:40:11,440
putting the nest in your home

2650
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,639
that there are 300 other companies that

2651
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:16,239
are gathering your data that are

2652
01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:18,560
listening through a microphone that are

2653
01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:21,600
you know hearing uh or you know

2654
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:24,480
seeing specific things and it really is

2655
01:40:26,470 --> 01:40:25,280
amazing are all

2656
01:40:28,470 --> 01:40:26,480
all the other apps that are on our

2657
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:28,480
computers that are getting in there and

2658
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:29,600
collecting

2659
01:40:33,990 --> 01:40:32,960
data all the time on us and profiling us

2660
01:40:36,390 --> 01:40:34,000
it's very

2661
01:40:38,790 --> 01:40:36,400
uh disconcerting sometimes as much as i

2662
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:38,800
love technology

2663
01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:41,920
yeah technology is in the words

2664
01:40:45,830 --> 01:40:43,920
of some of my best friends it's kind of

2665
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:45,840
like a cyber satan

2666
01:40:49,990 --> 01:40:48,960
because this thing is uncontrollable and

2667
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:50,000
sadly

2668
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:52,159
the ones who claim to have the most

2669
01:40:54,950 --> 01:40:54,159
control talk about this thing as if it

2670
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:54,960
was a divine

2671
01:41:00,149 --> 01:40:58,239
entity or a spiritual embodiment of

2672
01:41:01,189 --> 01:41:00,159
something larger than ourselves you know

2673
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:01,199
you start

2674
01:41:05,030 --> 01:41:04,000
talking to people that are involved with

2675
01:41:07,990 --> 01:41:05,040
ai

2676
01:41:10,629 --> 01:41:08,000
and the things that have taken over that

2677
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:10,639
were discussed in agenda 21 20 years ago

2678
01:41:13,669 --> 01:41:13,119
and you know they were pushing ai then

2679
01:41:15,510 --> 01:41:13,679
so

2680
01:41:18,070 --> 01:41:15,520
i think i think we're running into a

2681
01:41:19,990 --> 01:41:18,080
problem i just heard recently boston

2682
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:20,000
dynamics the war continues

2683
01:41:24,149 --> 01:41:22,080
boston dynamics just this week was

2684
01:41:27,270 --> 01:41:24,159
purchased by a chinese company

2685
01:41:29,109 --> 01:41:27,280
so they want to know what we know and

2686
01:41:30,870 --> 01:41:29,119
uh there's a reason because i think we

2687
01:41:34,390 --> 01:41:30,880
know a lot more

2688
01:41:36,629 --> 01:41:34,400
than we are letting on

2689
01:41:38,310 --> 01:41:36,639
and it's interesting and thank you for

2690
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:38,320
bringing that up i wanted to

2691
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:41,679
to ask you because we see in ufology

2692
01:41:45,270 --> 01:41:44,239
uh when you go down this rabbit hole

2693
01:41:47,669 --> 01:41:45,280
that you can

2694
01:41:48,790 --> 01:41:47,679
go down the rabbit hole of of looking

2695
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:48,800
into

2696
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:51,920
the secret societies or people that have

2697
01:41:55,669 --> 01:41:54,560
specific you know political agendas and

2698
01:41:58,550 --> 01:41:55,679
different things and i've

2699
01:42:00,629 --> 01:41:58,560
always found it intriguing that you know

2700
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:00,639
you look at the cast of characters

2701
01:42:05,590 --> 01:42:03,440
uh that you know i'm sure we all know

2702
01:42:08,950 --> 01:42:05,600
who i'm referring to and some of their

2703
01:42:12,229 --> 01:42:08,960
uh religious uh beliefs and things

2704
01:42:14,470 --> 01:42:12,239
and dabblings in scientology and other

2705
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:14,480
things over the years and so

2706
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:17,520
did you find yourself going

2707
01:42:28,709 --> 01:42:26,629
just trying to trying to formulate a

2708
01:42:31,830 --> 01:42:28,719
good way to answer that

2709
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:31,840
yeah okay so

2710
01:42:35,030 --> 01:42:34,000
i think some of the greatest okay so

2711
01:42:39,750 --> 01:42:35,040
it's true

2712
01:42:40,310 --> 01:42:39,760
that uh the the greatest coincidences

2713
01:42:42,390 --> 01:42:40,320
are the most

2714
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:42,400
obvious sometimes and and the greatest

2715
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:44,560
civilizations in history have

2716
01:42:50,470 --> 01:42:47,920
always had the belief of like a

2717
01:42:52,550 --> 01:42:50,480
hierarchy of unseen

2718
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:52,560
entities right uh starting with the

2719
01:42:56,709 --> 01:42:53,840
egyptians

2720
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:56,719
uh the greeks everybody claims to have

2721
01:42:59,910 --> 01:42:57,920
started it but the

2722
01:43:01,669 --> 01:42:59,920
reality is everybody's believing in the

2723
01:43:05,030 --> 01:43:01,679
same thing which is

2724
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:05,040
this unseen hierarchy

2725
01:43:12,229 --> 01:43:08,639
of whatever you want to call them

2726
01:43:15,350 --> 01:43:12,239
and they are explained as

2727
01:43:17,350 --> 01:43:15,360
somewhat governing over the embodiment

2728
01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:17,360
of at least our reality

2729
01:43:20,950 --> 01:43:19,360
and this goes back to atlantis and it

2730
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:20,960
all sounds really silly and oh i heard

2731
01:43:25,830 --> 01:43:22,400
about that as a kid

2732
01:43:28,390 --> 01:43:25,840
but the reality is that

2733
01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:28,400
more of the population believe in this

2734
01:43:32,149 --> 01:43:28,960
stuff

2735
01:43:34,149 --> 01:43:32,159
that govern us then we believe in it

2736
01:43:38,629 --> 01:43:34,159
and that is what we should be

2737
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:38,639
concentrating on

2738
01:43:42,709 --> 01:43:40,880
and that said you know the interesting

2739
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:42,719
thing about all of it it's not just i

2740
01:43:45,510 --> 01:43:44,480
wish and sometimes i wish it was just a

2741
01:43:48,070 --> 01:43:45,520
black and white issue

2742
01:43:48,629 --> 01:43:48,080
and which if we're really researching

2743
01:43:52,229 --> 01:43:48,639
the

2744
01:43:54,870 --> 01:43:52,239
should be very black and white

2745
01:43:56,950 --> 01:43:54,880
and and uh but then you know you have

2746
01:43:59,510 --> 01:43:56,960
all these other aspects that are

2747
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:59,520
that are moving into it and i think if

2748
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:00,880
you both you and i are quite similar in

2749
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:02,560
the fact we've always explored

2750
01:44:09,990 --> 01:44:06,000
different things and and spirituality or

2751
01:44:13,510 --> 01:44:10,000
you know what have you and i um i do

2752
01:44:16,229 --> 01:44:13,520
almost wonder you know is this subject

2753
01:44:16,950 --> 01:44:16,239
uh the people involved are they using

2754
01:44:20,229 --> 01:44:16,960
that as

2755
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:20,239
to form some sort of new religion

2756
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:29,590
hmm that's a loaded question i know

2757
01:44:32,830 --> 01:44:31,910
yeah is that before or after the great

2758
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:32,840
reset

2759
01:44:42,629 --> 01:44:40,790
and you're gonna have to answer that

2760
01:44:44,149 --> 01:44:42,639
question but tell us what the great

2761
01:44:46,950 --> 01:44:44,159
reset is because i'm

2762
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:46,960
i think i know but i'm not proficient in

2763
01:44:51,590 --> 01:44:48,400
that

2764
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:51,600
okay so there is with with coven 19

2765
01:44:55,669 --> 01:44:53,600
apparently there is this

2766
01:44:57,669 --> 01:44:55,679
purported this is the odd thing with

2767
01:44:58,149 --> 01:44:57,679
these coincidences is they're using the

2768
01:45:01,510 --> 01:44:58,159
same

2769
01:45:03,430 --> 01:45:01,520
jargon in two different arenas which

2770
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:03,440
is kind of like hey wait a minute maybe

2771
01:45:07,830 --> 01:45:04,560
there's a tie

2772
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:07,840
and with covid19 many have discussed

2773
01:45:12,229 --> 01:45:08,960
that after this

2774
01:45:14,950 --> 01:45:12,239
grand vaccine and and this um

2775
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:14,960
this vaccine is taken by the masses and

2776
01:45:18,950 --> 01:45:16,480
we're out of the woods

2777
01:45:20,390 --> 01:45:18,960
that there will be a great reset of

2778
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:20,400
sorts

2779
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:22,800
economically culturally and like a

2780
01:45:25,910 --> 01:45:24,159
renaissance that will take place

2781
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:25,920
afterwards well

2782
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:29,199
that's wonderful however if you look at

2783
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:30,000
some of these secret

2784
01:45:35,510 --> 01:45:33,199
teachings many also discuss great resets

2785
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:35,520
and so and this goes on from time to

2786
01:45:38,390 --> 01:45:37,360
time generation to generation every

2787
01:45:41,669 --> 01:45:38,400
culture

2788
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:41,679
has kind of had the same stories again

2789
01:45:45,669 --> 01:45:44,400
you know even predating the egyptians

2790
01:45:48,629 --> 01:45:45,679
which many people don't

2791
01:45:50,470 --> 01:45:48,639
like to do because then you go against

2792
01:45:51,669 --> 01:45:50,480
the whole how long have we been here and

2793
01:45:52,790 --> 01:45:51,679
i think that's been blown out of the

2794
01:45:56,629 --> 01:45:52,800
water with

2795
01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:56,639
places in turkey like ubegli tepee and

2796
01:46:01,350 --> 01:45:58,960
and it's it's getting to a point where

2797
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:01,360
uh our history may be more ancient

2798
01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:03,520
than we've realized and some of these

2799
01:46:08,149 --> 01:46:05,760
quote-unquote crazy ideas

2800
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:08,159
may not be so crazy there there may be a

2801
01:46:12,390 --> 01:46:10,320
reason why

2802
01:46:13,510 --> 01:46:12,400
why why the people that are the

2803
01:46:15,830 --> 01:46:13,520
brightest minds

2804
01:46:16,629 --> 01:46:15,840
are talking about something they created

2805
01:46:19,590 --> 01:46:16,639
as if

2806
01:46:20,470 --> 01:46:19,600
it is an entity which is sort of a scary

2807
01:46:22,870 --> 01:46:20,480
thought you know

2808
01:46:26,390 --> 01:46:22,880
it's reminiscent of transhumanism and

2809
01:46:28,629 --> 01:46:26,400
the sphinx and all kinds of stuff

2810
01:46:29,830 --> 01:46:28,639
interesting well it is interesting to

2811
01:46:33,430 --> 01:46:29,840
see how a lot of this

2812
01:46:35,990 --> 01:46:33,440
uh has has been you know really

2813
01:46:36,709 --> 01:46:36,000
imaged in the ufo community over the

2814
01:46:38,790 --> 01:46:36,719
decades

2815
01:46:40,470 --> 01:46:38,800
you know it's funny in my library and i

2816
01:46:41,830 --> 01:46:40,480
mentioned this on several shows because

2817
01:46:43,270 --> 01:46:41,840
i think it's fascinating but if

2818
01:46:45,189 --> 01:46:43,280
if you know you're looking at a

2819
01:46:47,750 --> 01:46:45,199
publication from

2820
01:46:49,510 --> 01:46:47,760
the 50s or 60s and you turn it over and

2821
01:46:50,390 --> 01:46:49,520
the person that's advertising on the

2822
01:46:53,830 --> 01:46:50,400
back

2823
01:46:55,430 --> 01:46:53,840
cover is it's the word of christians and

2824
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,440
you know you start looking through and

2825
01:46:59,109 --> 01:46:57,360
seeing okay who's placing ads in this

2826
01:47:01,030 --> 01:46:59,119
magazine and who's doing

2827
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:01,040
uh you know this over there and then

2828
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:02,960
what are you like if you look through

2829
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:04,800
fate magazine and you see that there's a

2830
01:47:08,629 --> 01:47:05,760
very

2831
01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:08,639
uh religious uh in your face type of

2832
01:47:12,310 --> 01:47:09,520
thing

2833
01:47:13,590 --> 01:47:12,320
and and then also i think uh some

2834
01:47:16,950 --> 01:47:13,600
interesting

2835
01:47:18,790 --> 01:47:16,960
political uh ideas

2836
01:47:20,950 --> 01:47:18,800
and probably dangerous political ideas

2837
01:47:23,990 --> 01:47:20,960
it's been curious to me

2838
01:47:26,070 --> 01:47:24,000
to to see how much of this

2839
01:47:27,189 --> 01:47:26,080
is you know a lot of people involved in

2840
01:47:31,109 --> 01:47:27,199
this are

2841
01:47:33,109 --> 01:47:31,119
uh you know why are nazi sympathizers

2842
01:47:34,229 --> 01:47:33,119
and i find that fascinating and we're

2843
01:47:36,310 --> 01:47:34,239
gonna have to you and i are gonna have

2844
01:47:37,990 --> 01:47:36,320
to talk about that privately because

2845
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:38,000
the show's getting ready to close but it

2846
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:40,000
just is it's it's all

2847
01:47:43,510 --> 01:47:42,800
a trip but at the end of the day you

2848
01:47:46,310 --> 01:47:43,520
know with

2849
01:47:47,830 --> 01:47:46,320
regard to what you've learned about

2850
01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:47,840
things at the basin

2851
01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:50,320
the things that you've experienced you

2852
01:47:55,669 --> 01:47:53,360
know in a nutshell what would you say of

2853
01:47:58,870 --> 01:47:55,679
of your experience and what what are you

2854
01:48:01,750 --> 01:47:58,880
going to be doing in the future

2855
01:48:02,629 --> 01:48:01,760
great questions about spacewolf oh great

2856
01:48:07,510 --> 01:48:02,639
great question

2857
01:48:10,629 --> 01:48:07,520
um okay so uh i'm glad you asked that

2858
01:48:12,870 --> 01:48:10,639
because in in the uintah basin it's it's

2859
01:48:15,030 --> 01:48:12,880
one of those things that

2860
01:48:17,030 --> 01:48:15,040
we we mentioned these beliefs these

2861
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:17,040
crazy beliefs in hierarchies of these

2862
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,000
things so there's more than

2863
01:48:21,990 --> 01:48:20,639
one right and and so there's more than

2864
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:22,000
one possibility right

2865
01:48:25,669 --> 01:48:23,600
and especially if there's some time

2866
01:48:27,270 --> 01:48:25,679
slips or dimensionality or we're looking

2867
01:48:30,229 --> 01:48:27,280
behind the veil so

2868
01:48:31,270 --> 01:48:30,239
these are a lot of faceted multiplying

2869
01:48:33,990 --> 01:48:31,280
factors

2870
01:48:35,109 --> 01:48:34,000
that if you're calculating your safety

2871
01:48:37,590 --> 01:48:35,119
as you mentioned

2872
01:48:38,709 --> 01:48:37,600
if you go up there you definitely want

2873
01:48:41,270 --> 01:48:38,719
to be safe

2874
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:41,280
and so take that calculation into

2875
01:48:45,030 --> 01:48:43,360
consideration as well but the belief of

2876
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:45,040
multiple entities like we discussed are

2877
01:48:48,470 --> 01:48:46,719
hierarchies of these things

2878
01:48:50,229 --> 01:48:48,480
don't just go out there invoking

2879
01:48:52,790 --> 01:48:50,239
whatever because

2880
01:48:53,430 --> 01:48:52,800
there is the very good possibility that

2881
01:48:57,189 --> 01:48:53,440
whatever

2882
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:57,199
is not going to be nice to you and

2883
01:49:01,270 --> 01:48:59,360
with that in mind kind of moving out of

2884
01:49:04,390 --> 01:49:01,280
the occult

2885
01:49:04,790 --> 01:49:04,400
moving on to space wolf basically space

2886
01:49:08,310 --> 01:49:04,800
wolf

2887
01:49:09,590 --> 01:49:08,320
is kind of just sitting there and trying

2888
01:49:12,550 --> 01:49:09,600
to be as

2889
01:49:13,189 --> 01:49:12,560
omnipresent yet non-static as possible

2890
01:49:14,550 --> 01:49:13,199
cause

2891
01:49:16,629 --> 01:49:14,560
the least amount of static with

2892
01:49:19,189 --> 01:49:16,639
neighbors the community

2893
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:19,199
or anybody um and that's hard when

2894
01:49:22,790 --> 01:49:20,080
you've taken

2895
01:49:25,350 --> 01:49:22,800
kind of the lovers lane that saw you

2896
01:49:28,550 --> 01:49:25,360
know like eight to ten cars a weekend

2897
01:49:31,589 --> 01:49:28,560
and you you fence it all up and say

2898
01:49:32,550 --> 01:49:31,599
hey this is being monitored 24 7 no

2899
01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:32,560
trespassing

2900
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:36,080
so that kind of can make people angry um

2901
01:49:39,830 --> 01:49:38,159
and i've had you know trust i've had

2902
01:49:41,030 --> 01:49:39,840
trespassing and people who have driven

2903
01:49:43,990 --> 01:49:41,040
through the fence

2904
01:49:46,070 --> 01:49:44,000
and craziness and and but you know it's

2905
01:49:48,550 --> 01:49:46,080
just an area that i'm trying to get back

2906
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:48,560
uh the way it should be i think with

2907
01:49:51,830 --> 01:49:49,440
being at least

2908
01:49:52,790 --> 01:49:51,840
the least amount intrusive as possible

2909
01:49:56,229 --> 01:49:52,800
um i did have an

2910
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,239
rv that like got vaporized there by by

2911
01:49:59,910 --> 01:49:58,639
yeah we're going to ask you about that

2912
01:50:04,470 --> 01:49:59,920
yeah

2913
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:04,480
place i kind of did the opposite of what

2914
01:50:07,430 --> 01:50:06,320
everybody expected because rvs are not

2915
01:50:09,189 --> 01:50:07,440
supposed to be able to

2916
01:50:10,709 --> 01:50:09,199
get hit really by lightning because

2917
01:50:13,350 --> 01:50:10,719
they're insulated and

2918
01:50:13,830 --> 01:50:13,360
this one i did all the precautions but

2919
01:50:16,070 --> 01:50:13,840
um

2920
01:50:17,109 --> 01:50:16,080
in its place i put a container a steel

2921
01:50:20,229 --> 01:50:17,119
container which

2922
01:50:22,229 --> 01:50:20,239
uh should draw lightning you know and uh

2923
01:50:24,870 --> 01:50:22,239
i haven't had any effects with that yet

2924
01:50:26,709 --> 01:50:24,880
but the reason i did it is many believe

2925
01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:26,719
that these entities if they are

2926
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:30,560
something other than a plausibly

2927
01:50:35,350 --> 01:50:34,080
explained um thing

2928
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:35,360
unless unless it's something you can

2929
01:50:39,669 --> 01:50:37,520
explain easily it's

2930
01:50:41,189 --> 01:50:39,679
it could be some of these entities

2931
01:50:43,750 --> 01:50:41,199
called faye in the uk

2932
01:50:45,430 --> 01:50:43,760
or jin in the middle east or whatever we

2933
01:50:47,350 --> 01:50:45,440
call them in the southwest

2934
01:50:48,709 --> 01:50:47,360
but uh we'll see if it gets hit by

2935
01:50:51,510 --> 01:50:48,719
lightning or not but that's kind of what

2936
01:50:54,870 --> 01:50:51,520
we're kind of up to right now

2937
01:50:56,629 --> 01:50:54,880
and said you um it was so what is i mean

2938
01:50:59,430 --> 01:50:56,639
if you can tell us what is inside the

2939
01:51:03,669 --> 01:51:03,030
i can't tell you that okay yeah i wish i

2940
01:51:07,669 --> 01:51:03,679
could

2941
01:51:15,830 --> 01:51:07,679
nothing fascinating

2942
01:51:19,830 --> 01:51:18,470
and and so are you at one point i had

2943
01:51:20,709 --> 01:51:19,840
heard that you were working with chris

2944
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:20,719
o'brien

2945
01:51:27,430 --> 01:51:23,760
and that you had some of his his uh

2946
01:51:30,470 --> 01:51:27,440
equipment up there is that correct

2947
01:51:32,709 --> 01:51:30,480
that is correct um the issue with that

2948
01:51:34,750 --> 01:51:32,719
is that uh a couple of things took place

2949
01:51:35,990 --> 01:51:34,760
at that time um there was kind of a

2950
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:36,000
resurgence

2951
01:51:41,030 --> 01:51:39,119
that i believe i i just believed that i

2952
01:51:44,229 --> 01:51:41,040
wanted to

2953
01:51:46,629 --> 01:51:44,239
camera down just less technology less

2954
01:51:47,589 --> 01:51:46,639
stuff buzzing at night you know less

2955
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:47,599
stuff less

2956
01:51:50,790 --> 01:51:49,840
less electricity just kind of more of a

2957
01:51:53,669 --> 01:51:50,800
natural

2958
01:51:55,189 --> 01:51:53,679
regenerative like regenerate the area a

2959
01:51:58,310 --> 01:51:55,199
little bit um if there are

2960
01:52:01,990 --> 01:51:58,320
entities there let it get back to normal

2961
01:52:04,550 --> 01:52:02,000
and that's kind of been the case so um

2962
01:52:05,750 --> 01:52:04,560
anyway yeah that that's kind of my

2963
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:05,760
direction

2964
01:52:11,270 --> 01:52:08,880
and uh the the the stuff with chris

2965
01:52:14,950 --> 01:52:11,280
o'brien it's an amazing product

2966
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:14,960
however it does utilize dahua uh

2967
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:18,480
cameras and unfortunately those lenses

2968
01:52:22,229 --> 01:52:20,400
and cameras and that system and many of

2969
01:52:25,270 --> 01:52:22,239
the diagnostics

2970
01:52:28,629 --> 01:52:25,280
and systems that run that are

2971
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:28,639
all um based out of china and

2972
01:52:32,550 --> 01:52:30,960
and questionable so that's that's a

2973
01:52:34,070 --> 01:52:32,560
that's a bummer because you know that

2974
01:52:35,510 --> 01:52:34,080
stuff's not cheap but

2975
01:52:37,109 --> 01:52:35,520
it's more important i think in my

2976
01:52:40,149 --> 01:52:37,119
opinion to

2977
01:52:42,470 --> 01:52:40,159
uh not use stuff or utilize things or

2978
01:52:44,310 --> 01:52:42,480
you know fly drones or do things that

2979
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:44,320
are going to

2980
01:52:51,030 --> 01:52:47,599
um possibly open up

2981
01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:51,040
this inexplicable treasure trove

2982
01:52:55,669 --> 01:52:52,000
whatever it may be

2983
01:53:02,149 --> 01:52:55,679
to characters that are not uh you know

2984
01:53:07,350 --> 01:53:05,189
do you get concerned you know with being

2985
01:53:09,030 --> 01:53:07,360
up there and i know that they have

2986
01:53:12,390 --> 01:53:09,040
mentioned specifically

2987
01:53:19,669 --> 01:53:12,400
uh the new ownership about the the

2988
01:53:24,550 --> 01:53:22,709
i can't speak to that but i i love the

2989
01:53:27,109 --> 01:53:24,560
place maybe it's just like a rat in a

2990
01:53:30,149 --> 01:53:27,119
cage going back to the strychnine but

2991
01:53:31,589 --> 01:53:30,159
i love the place and it does have an

2992
01:53:34,310 --> 01:53:31,599
energy about it that is

2993
01:53:36,070 --> 01:53:34,320
un you know it's unsafe at any level is

2994
01:53:37,510 --> 01:53:36,080
the way i like to say it because it's an

2995
01:53:41,510 --> 01:53:37,520
amazing energy

2996
01:53:43,589 --> 01:53:41,520
going to be

2997
01:53:45,510 --> 01:53:43,599
you know any force has an equal or

2998
01:53:47,830 --> 01:53:45,520
greater reaction so

2999
01:53:50,229 --> 01:53:47,840
you are that reaction so just be ready

3000
01:53:53,270 --> 01:53:50,239
for anything

3001
01:53:55,030 --> 01:53:53,280
okay yeah that is interesting and this

3002
01:53:57,270 --> 01:53:55,040
has been such a fascinating

3003
01:53:58,390 --> 01:53:57,280
show i could talk to you for you know a

3004
01:54:00,950 --> 01:53:58,400
lot longer

3005
01:54:02,709 --> 01:54:00,960
which i'm really glad that we're we're

3006
01:54:04,390 --> 01:54:02,719
communicating and things because

3007
01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:04,400
we have a lot i think we can share with

3008
01:54:08,550 --> 01:54:05,920
each other and learn from

3009
01:54:10,310 --> 01:54:08,560
with regard to some of the goings on in

3010
01:54:11,750 --> 01:54:10,320
in that area and i can't wait for you to

3011
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:11,760
come up and see the library

3012
01:54:17,270 --> 01:54:14,880
and to you know maybe get up

3013
01:54:18,229 --> 01:54:17,280
get up in the neighborhoods up there and

3014
01:54:20,229 --> 01:54:18,239
stuff but i

3015
01:54:21,350 --> 01:54:20,239
thank you so much and is there a place

3016
01:54:24,390 --> 01:54:21,360
where people can

3017
01:54:26,550 --> 01:54:24,400
learn more about space wolf's research

3018
01:54:28,310 --> 01:54:26,560
oh sure um there's not much to it it's

3019
01:54:30,229 --> 01:54:28,320
just a real estate company that

3020
01:54:31,990 --> 01:54:30,239
is allowing some research and the

3021
01:54:32,550 --> 01:54:32,000
research is pretty minimal like i said

3022
01:54:34,310 --> 01:54:32,560
and

3023
01:54:35,910 --> 01:54:34,320
yeah if you get up there maybe we'll uh

3024
01:54:38,870 --> 01:54:35,920
take a peek inside the uh

3025
01:54:39,189 --> 01:54:38,880
the container but um yeah there's not a

3026
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:39,199
lot

3027
01:54:45,430 --> 01:54:42,880
just go to spacewolfresearch.com and uh

3028
01:54:45,910 --> 01:54:45,440
it there's not that not a lot there but

3029
01:54:48,950 --> 01:54:45,920
it's

3030
01:54:52,390 --> 01:54:48,960
what it is

3031
01:54:54,550 --> 01:54:52,400
and i just i think research is important

3032
01:54:55,430 --> 01:54:54,560
and so i also want to say if you you

3033
01:54:56,870 --> 01:54:55,440
last time

3034
01:54:58,550 --> 01:54:56,880
i had you on the show you were talking

3035
01:55:00,870 --> 01:54:58,560
about uh

3036
01:55:04,149 --> 01:55:00,880
editing your book and then putting out a

3037
01:55:07,109 --> 01:55:04,159
new version did you ever do that

3038
01:55:07,750 --> 01:55:07,119
good question um i think i did but i

3039
01:55:10,629 --> 01:55:07,760
don't know

3040
01:55:11,430 --> 01:55:10,639
if it was if if it was the vegas

3041
01:55:13,669 --> 01:55:11,440
shooting book

3042
01:55:14,629 --> 01:55:13,679
that is just not happening like i've

3043
01:55:17,430 --> 01:55:14,639
been shot down

3044
01:55:18,310 --> 01:55:17,440
no pun intended by everybody so that's

3045
01:55:20,070 --> 01:55:18,320
not happening

3046
01:55:21,910 --> 01:55:20,080
but um yeah there's some other stuff in

3047
01:55:24,390 --> 01:55:21,920
the works i'm just so slow

3048
01:55:26,870 --> 01:55:24,400
and i'm trying my best but i'll get it

3049
01:55:28,790 --> 01:55:26,880
as soon as i can out there

3050
01:55:30,390 --> 01:55:28,800
well and the fact that you've got a

3051
01:55:33,270 --> 01:55:30,400
beautiful family

3052
01:55:34,149 --> 01:55:33,280
now and and stuff i mean i'm glad that

3053
01:55:35,430 --> 01:55:34,159
you're

3054
01:55:37,350 --> 01:55:35,440
taking a little you know break and

3055
01:55:37,990 --> 01:55:37,360
focusing on the family because it's just

3056
01:55:41,510 --> 01:55:38,000
such a

3057
01:55:43,750 --> 01:55:41,520
fun fun time of life so give

3058
01:55:45,510 --> 01:55:43,760
your give your wife my love and

3059
01:55:46,470 --> 01:55:45,520
hopefully we will see each other soon

3060
01:55:49,030 --> 01:55:46,480
and thank you

3061
01:55:50,550 --> 01:55:49,040
for for being here and let's definitely

3062
01:55:51,830 --> 01:55:50,560
connect because you said some things

3063
01:55:54,550 --> 01:55:51,840
that i want to talk to you about

3064
01:55:56,310 --> 01:55:54,560
off the air that sounds great okay we'll

3065
01:55:58,149 --> 01:55:56,320
do thanks erica

3066
01:55:59,990 --> 01:55:58,159
they said it couldn't be done but i

3067
01:56:01,589 --> 01:56:00,000
wanted to have some fun i hope i'm not

3068
01:56:05,350 --> 01:56:01,599
the only one

3069
01:56:08,229 --> 01:56:05,360
reminiscent of sheryl crow i think that

3070
01:56:10,149 --> 01:56:08,239
uh yeah that was a good show and

3071
01:56:11,830 --> 01:56:10,159
speaking of singers erica is a great

3072
01:56:12,790 --> 01:56:11,840
singer reminiscent of cheryl crow as

3073
01:56:15,669 --> 01:56:12,800
well she's a

3074
01:56:17,510 --> 01:56:15,679
interesting and chris marks is a

3075
01:56:18,709 --> 01:56:17,520
incredible musician as well so it just

3076
01:56:21,189 --> 01:56:18,719
goes to show there's

3077
01:56:21,830 --> 01:56:21,199
so many interesting individuals involved

3078
01:56:24,390 --> 01:56:21,840
in so

3079
01:56:25,510 --> 01:56:24,400
many parts of ufology and other research

3080
01:56:28,550 --> 01:56:25,520
that is important

3081
01:56:31,990 --> 01:56:28,560
to all of us well there you have it

3082
01:56:33,189 --> 01:56:32,000
erica luke's grilling me no i'm just

3083
01:56:36,390 --> 01:56:33,199
kidding it's kind of nice

3084
01:56:39,109 --> 01:56:36,400
chatting with her about these subjects

3085
01:56:39,990 --> 01:56:39,119
interestingly we don't have these same

3086
01:56:43,030 --> 01:56:40,000
views

3087
01:56:46,950 --> 01:56:43,040
now i try not to engage too much

3088
01:56:49,669 --> 01:56:46,960
in that format instead i try to uh

3089
01:56:52,390 --> 01:56:49,679
concentrate on the similarities we we do

3090
01:56:55,990 --> 01:56:52,400
have some things that we do agree upon

3091
01:56:58,070 --> 01:56:56,000
and and the history is important

3092
01:57:00,390 --> 01:56:58,080
and she's archiving significant amounts

3093
01:57:02,149 --> 01:57:00,400
of information which is very important

3094
01:57:04,070 --> 01:57:02,159
and important to everybody and i think

3095
01:57:05,990 --> 01:57:04,080
we all are doing our best

3096
01:57:08,149 --> 01:57:06,000
so it's good to look past your

3097
01:57:09,510 --> 01:57:08,159
differences especially in this political

3098
01:57:11,510 --> 01:57:09,520
day and age where

3099
01:57:13,510 --> 01:57:11,520
you know families are being torn apart

3100
01:57:16,550 --> 01:57:13,520
over the christmas

3101
01:57:18,950 --> 01:57:16,560
turkey or ham over a discussion on

3102
01:57:22,629 --> 01:57:18,960
politics i mean the reality is

3103
01:57:26,149 --> 01:57:22,639
it's okay to agree to disagree

3104
01:57:29,189 --> 01:57:26,159
because it's not my place and

3105
01:57:31,430 --> 01:57:29,199
that is really what i believe the more

3106
01:57:33,430 --> 01:57:31,440
that i go on in this game it's not my

3107
01:57:35,189 --> 01:57:33,440
place to judge others it is just my

3108
01:57:38,310 --> 01:57:35,199
place to do what i do

3109
01:57:38,950 --> 01:57:38,320
best and that's be me so until next time

3110
01:57:41,030 --> 01:57:38,960
guys

3111
01:57:42,550 --> 01:57:41,040
keep your eyes to the skies feet on the

3112
01:57:52,270 --> 01:57:42,560
ground but don't forget

3113
01:58:00,070 --> 01:57:52,280
to take a look around

3114
01:58:02,950 --> 01:58:00,080
[Music]

3115
01:58:12,160 --> 01:58:02,960
come blast off in my time machine third

3116
01:58:12,170 --> 01:58:16,149
[Music]

3117
01:58:23,030 --> 01:58:20,149
blast off blast off blast off

3118
01:58:35,150 --> 01:58:23,040
come blast off in my time machine third

3119
01:59:01,830 --> 01:58:35,160
eye feeling like you need